Narex Chisels- Mini review

[LuptonM]

Firstly I have no idea how to cut mortices but I bought these with the intention to learn how to. (my mum wants me to make her a table!!!!!- cheeky pipper :lol: )

The three here are 6mm, 10mm and 14mm- the 14mm will probably be used for large items such as very sturdy tables

One thing that I noticed straight out of the box is that they are HUGE!!!!!

The chisels come cleanly ground and are ready for honing- possibly the bottom is slightly concave- not sure if this is necessary for mortice chisels though

Anyway I've taken some measurements here to show their actual sizes (measured the widest point-the bottom surface)- it was a little tricky since they are slightly trapezoid

The 10mm chisel

The 14mm chisel

The 6mm chisel with normal callipers

I would have seem to have lost the image where I measured the 6mm chisel with digital callipers- it was about 5.2mm-5.3mm if I remember- I used the analogue callipers to show that my digital one was not out of sync in case ppl wanted to raise the fact that the 6mm chisels is surprisingly smaller than stated

Another thing I noticed about them is that they don't seem very heavy- I would have thought that mortice chisels should be blade heavy but these do not seem so. Personally I am not keen on the handles and think that they are too long and I am not sure on the shape either- however don't take this a gospel since I am not experienced in hand mortising

I think that these are the cheapest mortice chisels on the market currently- roughly £14 each. The other takings are probably more than double in price

I might attempt some-when to try them out properly (me banging away indoors scares the dogs so I'll have to find somewhere appropriate outside). This will also lead me onto another mini review of the Veritas marking gauge and mortice attachment. You will also be able to laugh at my mortice attempt as well- either that or it'll make you feel better about yourself

 

[woodbloke]

I tested some for Matthew a while back...they're really excellent. The first mm or so of the steel is quite 'mushy' (which is normal) but once you get into the good stuff you'll find they can chop through anything. The handles look much improved to the ones I tested for Matt - Rob

 

[LuptonM]

There are two types or narex mortice chisels available from workshopheaven. These are the ones that were released with the cabinetmakers chisels (the newer ones). I just feel the handles need to be more elliptical- maybe like them old pig sticker chisels.
I'll have ago at making some mortices in some scrap some-when and I'll be able to better evaluate how I get along with them

 

[Alf]

Just the ticket, Marc. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[jimi43]

Thanks for the review Marc...not least because you reminded me I still have one of Matt's chisels on the shelf in a tube ready to post back him!

Interesting comment there Rob....I am not used to "mush" at the front end of edge tools...perhaps because most of mine lost their mush about a century ago.... :mrgreen:

I found they cut well...I just did a little mortice which turned out remarkably accurate and fitted together with a little tenon that I made with a Japanese saw.....I had the 8mm one:

After marking out with some less up-to-date technology....

.,.the edge cut very cleanly....

...and didn't really need much clean-up....

Not an exhaustive test but quite an impressive tool for the price way better value than comparable priced product on the market.

I look forward to your shavings Marc...while I get out and chip a few more holes before returning my sample!

Jim

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Marc,

Thank you for your excellent review.

There should be a very slight taper in the width of the blades from front to back so you will get different width measurements at different points up the blade. Its barely noticable, maybe half a mm to a mm over the entire length, but with that and the slight taper on the sides it's enough to prevent them from behaving like a nail and sticking in the timber.

The width of mortice chisels seems to attract a lot of interest but I'm not sure why. Normal practice is to select a chisel of approximately the right width (say a 6mm if you are using 18mm material and sticking to the rule of thirds) then use the tip of the chisel itself as the width measurement for everything - setting the gauges, laying out the mortice, determining the width of the tenon etc. This way you leave the smallest possible number of opportunities for error to creep into your work.

 

[TobyB]

Just to add to what's already been said - I now have a set and they are fantastic.

I did have some CI Falls examples that Matthew stocked briefly - but their size and grind was a bit off. Did work OK. Matthew let me try a sample of each handle version he stocks - and I do like the larger faceted handles. He swapped the CI's for a full set of Narex's. They work wonderfully - I couldn't resist wielding the enormous 16 mm beast - and with a hard bit of maple scrap chopped out a 5 cm long, parallel-sided mortice in less than 2 minutes. I'd never have managed that with bench chisels.

Terrific tools, very reasonably priced and affordable compared to something like LN's ... and yet more great service from Matthew at Workshop Heaven

 

[bugbear]

The first mm or so of the steel is quite 'mushy' (which is normal) but once you get into the good stuff you'll find they can chop through anything.

It's quite common for the first mm of an edge tool to be unrepresentative; if the edge has been ground before heat treament, it's VERY difficult to heat treat a non uniform tool in a uniform manner.

If the bevel is ground after heat treatment, there's ample opportunity to over heat the tip.

IIRC Japanese chisels are commonly absurdly hard and brittle at the tip when new. Odate speaks of "taming" a new chisel.

Moral - judgement of a brand new edge tool should be cautious.

BugBear

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Woodbloke and BugBear,

The first mm or so of the steel is quite 'mushy' (which is normal) but once you get into the good stuff you'll find they can chop through anything.

It's quite common for the first mm of an edge tool to be unrepresentative; if the edge has been ground before heat treament, it's VERY difficult to heat treat a non uniform tool in a uniform manner. If the bevel is ground after heat treatment, there's ample opportunity to over heat the tip. IIRC Japanese chisels are commonly absurdly hard and brittle at the tip when new. Odate speaks of "taming" a new chisel. Moral - judgement of a brand new edge tool should be cautious. BugBear

I'm really glad that I saw your comments, as I was concerned about my new Narex chisels. I'll just have to use them some more!!

Thanks,
Neil

 

[TobyB]

Just to update - one of my set also needed a mm or so grinding off after it chipped ... but that was a one-off ... I have chopped out a lot of wood with these, and the steel, the handles and all are great - good tools at a sensible price ... wondering if the cabinet-makers bevel-edged will be as good ...

 

[woodbloke]

I did have some CI Falls examples that Matthew stocked briefly - but their size and grind was a bit off.

That has to be the understatement of the year :lol:...Matt let me have a look at some a while back and whist the quality of the steel was excellent, the chisel surfaces had much in common with a ploughed field. In fact, a field would have been a tad smoother - Rob

 

[matthewwh]

The C.I. Falls probably wouldn't win any beauty contests, but they take one heck of an edge and it's useful to have a range for people that like to give their tools a bit more welly. I don't regret switching to Narex for a moment though, and a little bird tells me that they will shortly be adding a range of chunky firmer chisels for bigger rougher work.

In the meantime I have been tinkering with the 8116 cabinetmakers range and asked them to put a smaller version of the same handle on the 26mm and below. It's quite a subtle change but there is a noticable improvement in the balance and feel of the smaller sizes. The new ones will become standard when our new website launches on the 5th of December (assuming all of the necessary stars are in alignment) with the larger handles available on request for those with big paws.

Until then if you put 'Large handles please' or 'Small handles please' in the shipping comments box we will send them out as requested.

 

[Jacob]

They are a bit light weight these chisels - traditionally could be called "sash mortice" chisels as used for the small (but deep) mortices for glazing bars. The deep bladed trad "oval bolster" type will do a much better job on longer mortices such as table apron/leg joint or door stiles etc.
They should have rounded bevels. I notice that one of them pictured above is hideously hollow ground - really not good for a mortice chisel as simply too fragile for normal use i.e. being hit hard with mallet.
Above 1/2" I would have thought those flimsy looking handles wouldn't be up to the bashing.
A fantasy woodworker :roll: recently said somewhere that if you have to hit a chisel with a mallet then it's not sharp enough. Complete rollox! :lol:

 

[condeesteso]

What was actually said was this, (a significant mis-quote above)
"If you need to hit a chisel hard enough to damage a wooden handle then you haven't sharpened it properly."
Hope this isn't turning into another sharpening thread.

I have seen Jim's* Narex and was impressed with the precision of grinding in particular - they look very good users... I've seen prettier but that isn't the point with mortice chisels I suppose.
(*and when I say Jim's of course I mean Matthew's)

 

[Jacob]

.......
The width of mortice chisels seems to attract a lot of interest but I'm not sure why.

For me because for many purposes the MT width fits the design, so a window frame with a 1/2" land (waddyacallit) wants a 1/2" M&T as anything else will leave a funny little shoulder detail to sort out. Similarly with many other (not all) designs such as panelling etc.
I checked my old british mortice chisels and they are precisely (in woodworking terms) 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 inch which gives 6.4, 7.9, 9.5, 12.7, 15.9, mm to nearest 0.1mm. Hence the 10mm Narex would pass as a 3/8" but the other widths are a bit mysterious and useless, for me at least.

Normal practice...............etc

Normal practice is to assume the above imperial sizes and set your gauge to a scale, not the chisel, not least because it is surprisingly difficult to get the two points to line up consistently with the edge and as BB points out this part of the edge may be wrong anyway.
Then the chisel (if properly sized) will fit.

NB condeesteso, it was somebody else's quote I had in mind, but I would say that especially for the larger sizes you need to hit a mortice chisel as hard as you can. If this breaks the handle it's the handle's fault! :lol:

 

[condeesteso]

apologies then, of course most chisels must withstand the mallet. Anyway, these Narex most certainly can.

 

[bugbear]

.......
The width of mortice chisels seems to attract a lot of interest but I'm not sure why.

For me because for many purposes the MT width fits the design, so a window frame with a 1/2" land (waddyacallit) wants a 1/2" M&T as anything else will leave a funny little shoulder detail to sort out. Similarly with many other (not all) designs such as panelling etc.

I can see the (exact) width of a mortise mattering only if the tenon is barefaced on both sides; in general, if you're actually marking and cutting a tenon, you simply mark and cut the tenon to the width of the mortise.

However, it may well be important that your (various) mortice chisels match your (various) plough plane blades, other wise various joint become tedious (e.g. breadboard ends, with a mortise IN a groove).

In the modern era of factory supplied planed stock (or plywood), I suppose exact sizeing becomes more important.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

.....
I can see the (exact) width of a mortise mattering only if the tenon is barefaced on both sides;

Have a look at a window M&T

in general, if you're actually marking and cutting a tenon, you simply mark and cut the tenon to the width of the mortise.

No, you cut them both, independently, to the marks from the marking gauge.

However, it may well be important that your (various) mortice chisels match your (various) plough plane blades, other wise various joint become tedious (e.g. breadboard ends, with a mortise IN a groove).

In the modern era of factory supplied planed stock (or plywood), I suppose exact sizeing becomes more important.

BugBear

It also mattered in the past.

 

[bugbear]

.....
I can see the (exact) width of a mortise mattering only if the tenon is barefaced on both sides;

Have a look at a window M&T

Information gratefully recieved - which particular joint are you referrring to?

in general, if you're actually marking and cutting a tenon, you simply mark and cut the tenon to the width of the mortise.

No, you cut them both, independently, to the marks from the marking gauge.

Yebbut, you set the mortise gauge to the mortise chisel; thus the mortise is automatically the right size, made in a single pass of cuts, and you were going to have to cut the tenon in two separate line anyway, so there's no extra effort. Works for me, but if you have counter examples, I'm happy to listen.

It also mattered in the past.

If you could add context, explanations or examples to your assertions, the discussion might be more fruitful. I know pantomime season draws nigh, but I'm not going to play "oh yes it is" "oh no it isn't" with you.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

..... the 10mm Narex would pass as a 3/8" but the other widths are a bit mysterious and useless, for me at least......

I see they are intended to be metric in 2mm steps, but according to OP LuptonM's measurements they are under sized. Neither one thing or the other - don't buy them!