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Mystery obelisk spotted... but it gets away!

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AndyT

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Some while back in a boot fair booty gloat thread Jim showed us this plough plane blade with some sort of obelisk / column / wedding cake logo on it. Since then, several people have scratched their heads from time to time, but nobody has tracked it down.



I still haven't, but I have seen it in the wild again - at least, on eBay:



However, this doesn't really do much more than prove that it exists, which we already know. This time, it was on a (shortened?) cap iron attached to a Hildick 'Diamic' iron on a 'Toga' jack plane, now sold for £26.42:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LOVELY-17-JACK-PLANE-MADE-TOGA-PERFECT-CONDITION-AGE-/300703489329

I think Toga was a house brand for Buck and Hickman rather than a maker as such. Whatever the case, we are not really any nearer, but having caught a glimpse of the mystery item, I thought you ought to know about it!
 

TobyC

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That's a White Farm Equipment logo. Don't know the connection to hand planes.

Toby
 

AndyT

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TobyC":jsa7r9ci said:
That's a White Farm Equipment logo. Don't know the connection to hand planes.

Toby
Really?

All I can find for White Farm Equipment is this:



Is that the one you were thinking of?
 

TobyC

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That is the current logo, I think the other one is much older. I can't find an example at the moment, buy I'll keep looking.

Toby
 

AndyT

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Yes do - and post the images elsewhere if it helps. I can see that the newer picture could look like a stylised W - but it's not so obvious on the other picture.
 

No skills

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Spooky, was thinking about the mystery logo the other day, and I was watching that plane :oops: didnt scroll down the whole listing.

Not an obvious logo to decipher "F" on the left and "E" to the right, no wonder they changed it #-o
 

jimi43

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TobyC":28ojj7mc said:
That's a White Farm Equipment logo. Don't know the connection to hand planes.

Toby
I know it's a plough plane iron but I think this is a wild goose chase.... :mrgreen:

I think it still remains a mystery but a clearer logo for sure....thanks Andy!

Now it's your fault! :mrgreen: 8)

It's kinda like a game of pass the logo! :wink:

Jim
 

TobyC

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Well...
White Farm Equipment apparently didn't exist until 1969, so I guess I have egg on my face! Sorry about that. Don't know if it will help, but posted on two other forums about that logo, I will let you know.

Toby
 

jimi43

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TobyC":ceq6g686 said:
Well...
White Farm Equipment apparently didn't exist until 1969, so I guess I have egg on my face! Sorry about that. Don't know if it will help, but posted on two other forums about that logo, I will let you know.

Toby
Hey Toby...don't worry mate...everyone here has been scratching their heads over this logo for absolutely ages....it is fast becoming a standard by which all other head scratching is measured! :wink:

What gets me is that the cap iron logo is partially stamped. That is really strange..I know quality control wasn't exactly up to much as far as vertical alignment on some stamps was concerned but that far out is just weird. Almost as if it were cut off.

Cheers mate

Jim
 

TobyC

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It does look to have been cut off. Replacement from another plane? Damage that was ground off?

Toby
 

jimi43

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TobyC":3eian6rl said:
Hey guys,
This is from 2007.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/plane-hand-wooden-46350/

Frederick William Emmerich of Bermondsey, South London ca. 1930s

Toby
Sadly Toby...even five years on..ALF still doesn't know...and neither do we.....I guess it will still remain a mystery!

Interesting thought about the "kiln"...though I don't necessarily subscribe to that..it's worth storing...love the "might as well be a rocket ship for all I know" comment...superb!

I am not sure if the plot has thickened or got easier...only time will tell!

Seems you are getting some results though Toby...welcome to the chase! :mrgreen:

Jim
 

AndyT

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I like the FWE - Frederick William Emmerich theory.
As for the column - I did waste some time a while ago finding that there are quite a few prominent columns around Sheffield, but I guess there's no reason why Bermondsey wouldn't have some too.
 

jimi43

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AndyT":276ymiem said:
I like the FWE - Frederick William Emmerich theory.
As for the column - I did waste some time a while ago finding that there are quite a few prominent columns around Sheffield, but I guess there's no reason why Bermondsey wouldn't have some too.
Ah....I'm sorry Toby...I misread that part of the thread you posted. So they are implying that since the plane might be an EMIR as found in many schools of the time (as was their workbench)...and since that iron came from it, it is possibly original and the lettering on the "kiln" is now seen as FWE...which looks feasible...that this is the mark from EMIR.

Sadly...EMIR does have certain other middle eastern meanings....so sorting through those is going to be fun!

It is definitely a possibility though!

Hey...I just noticed THIS RECENT THREAD plough plane first item...SAMMY!!!!

I'll PM him!

Jim
 

SammyQ

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Jimi, I'm at work presently at work with year 11's finest....but, the plane didn't sell, so I'll check soon as I get I get home. Reply here tonight after tea. Sam
 

jimi43

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SammyQ":1j931otv said:
Jimi, I'm at work presently at work with year 11's finest....but, the plane didn't sell, so I'll check soon as I get I get home. Reply here tonight after tea. Sam
It's like one of those suspense movies!!!

Are we soon to see an end to the great mark mystery....stay tuned....! :mrgreen:

Jim
 

AndyT

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Tom K":21j0cxfh said:
http://www.ecemmerich.com/firmenportraet.html

Did someone have a link for German trademarks?
Wolfgang Jordan is your man - but his Emmerich page

http://www.holzwerken.de/museum/hersteller/ece.phtml

confirms the existence of a subsidiary of FWE in England, who used the Emir brand (still in use, and commonly found on school benches, planes, mallets etc - see here http://www.emir.co.uk/about-us ) and also this rather scary logo:



but no obelisk / column.

I did wonder if the mystery device was possibly a rather short stubby spar (as the Bermondsey factory was shown in BPM as being in "Spar Road" but other searches show it was called Spa Road, and not right by the docks or river either, so forget that daft idea!
 

Tom K

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It turns out that Bermondsey had been the centre of English 'Delft' production and so there may yet be a link!
 
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