Mystery iron, stamped MONK, any info appreciated

[ED65]

Here it is as bought, with the MONK stamp clearly visible through the rust because it's so boldly done:

Here it is partway through the cleanup where I first spotted the ghost of the first stamp:

And a closer view in different light:

So my questions:

• Does anyone have any info on Monk? I've searched in every way I know how but can't find any information online.
  
  Anyone recognise the original stamp from what little is left of it? I know it's of a style that was widely copied but that's all.
  
  Is this recycling of an early iron or a type of re-badging?

The jack plane this is from has a huge mouth and the iron isn't wide so it seemed an ideal candidate for conversion to a roughing plane, but I didn't want to camber the iron heavily without trying to find out more about it first.

 

[bugbear]

It's possibly a re-forged/re-purposed iron (you say it's narrow, so perhaps that's a clue).

I suspect "Monk" is the second worker, and the faint stamp is the original.

The style of the iron and cap-iron doesn't look super early, yet the MONK mark
doesn't look like any later era maker's mark I've ever seen, so (again)
I suspect a craftsman modified iron.

Could you perhaps (If you like messing about) try this photographic/lighting technique on the stamp?

tiny-success-t72861.html

(be warned. it's difficult and fiddly)

Failing which, it might be worth blacking the stamp up with a permanent marker, and then
(very lightly) cleaning the iron with fine SiC on a hard block. The should (if you're careful)
leave black colour in any grooves or marks, including the stamp.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

I can't find anything likely in the usual places. I don't think it's the Monk Bridge Iron and Steel Company.

I'd guess it's the name of a long forgotten tool shop, having some 'own brand' goods made. Is there a name on the body of the plane at all?

 

[ED65]

That axial lighting setup is amazing! I'd not seen that before. It improved the legibility of that Leadbeater & Scott stamping on your iron no end, knocks raking light into a cocked hat.

I don't think I have a loose sheet of glass around since my partner co-opted the one we had knocking about for a drawing aid a few weeks back so for now I might try the marker trick. I have no problems abrading the surface given all the iron has been through.

 

[ED65]

Is there a name on the body of the plane at all?

Regrettably no, no markings of any kind that I can make out through the very heavy dark patina. I didn't think a maker's stamp would help anyway given how easily irons can migrate from plane to plane?

 

[bugbear]

That axial lighting setup is amazing! I'd not seen that before. It improved the legibility of that Leadbeater & Scott stamping on your iron no end, knocks raking light into a cocked hat.

I don't think I have a loose sheet of glass around since my partner co-opted the one we had knocking about for a drawing aid a few weeks back so for now I might try the marker trick. I have no problems abrading the surface given all the iron has been through.

For a small sheet of glass, I bought a small (4"x3") framed picture at a car boot sale for 50p...

Most charity shops will provide similar, if you're not a car boot hound.

But getting Axial working "nicely" is fiddly, tricksy work.

The marker trick is worth trying.

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

Is there a name on the body of the plane at all?

Regrettably no, no markings of any kind that I can make out through the very heavy dark patina. I didn't think a maker's stamp would help anyway given how easily irons can migrate from plane to plane?

Well, if the maker's mark said Griffiths, yes, you'd be no further forward.

But if the maker mark said Monk, but in a different typeface, or "Monk, Coronation St", or "Monk Sheffield"
you'd be a happy bunny.

So it's worth looking for a maker's stamp, just to see what you find.

I do family/social history research, and spend a lot of time looking at sources of potential information that
come up empty.

I do this, because it's the only way to find those sources that don't come up empty.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Like BB said!

If you can really only see dirt, it's worth removing some of it - try a damp cloth first. If still nothing, a clean with reviver mixture can sometimes bring an invisible image back to life.

 

[Jacob]

I can't find anything likely in the usual places. I don't think it's the Monk Bridge Iron and Steel Company......

Why not? It looks extremely probable to me (in the absence of any other Monkey businesses)

 

[ED65]

Another oddity I spotted at the time I was cleaning it up but had forgotten about until I saw at the close-up shot reduced on my screen:

 

[ED65]

For a small sheet of glass, I bought a small (4"x3") framed picture at a car boot sale for 50p...

Most charity shops will provide similar, if you're not a car boot hound.

A charity shop picture frame I think is exactly where the last sheet of glass I had spare did come from

Well, if the maker's mark said Griffiths, yes, you'd be no further forward.

But if the maker mark said Monk, but in a different typeface, or "Monk, Coronation St", or "Monk Sheffield"
you'd be a happy bunny.

Yes I meant if it was an unrelated name.

If you can really only see dirt, it's worth removing some of it - try a damp cloth first. If still nothing, a clean with reviver mixture can sometimes bring an invisible image back to life.

Already done and I used said reviver mixture, just sans BLO. Although the remaining linseed oil glaze is very dark (nearly black on the toe and heel) I don't think it's obscuring any 3D detail.

I can't find anything likely in the usual places. I don't think it's the Monk Bridge Iron and Steel Company......

Why not? It looks extremely probable to me (in the absence of any other Monkey businesses)

The re-manufactured iron (or whatever the double stamping indicates) I'm doubtful would be seen from an established company like that, but we can't know for sure what was standard practice back in the day so it remains a possibility.

 

[AndyT]

I can't find anything likely in the usual places. I don't think it's the Monk Bridge Iron and Steel Company......

Why not? It looks extremely probable to me (in the absence of any other Monkey businesses)

Just because they seemed to be large scale producers of iron and steel as a raw material rather than toolmakers - but if the plane did say " Monk Leeds" I'd be guessing differently!

 

[Racers]

I think I see Mr Punch in the understamp, is that a word?

Pete

 

[Bm101]

Another oddity I spotted at the time I was cleaning it up but had forgotten about until I saw at the close-up shot reduced on my screen:

That looks a little like Cassiopeia. If you are trying to find the North Star using The Plough its known that by using the 2 pointer stars (about 5 times the distance) will give you the North Star.

But, what's less well known is you can double check it from 90 degrees from the fourth star 'down' in Cassiopeia. Now I'm not one for illuminati theories, but wait, what's stamped on the blade? 3 stars. Now look carefully, ED65 has highlighted Cassopeias formation but only one of the last THREE stars!

Sweet Baby Jesus! Tom Cruise was right all along!


So let's sort the wheat from the chaff here, has anyone actually met ED65? In Real Life?
I'm just saying....

Look what happens when you google ED Robot.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ed+ro ... CPAQsAQILw

Any Iron Maiden fans out there? (not me personally, I'm just saying), google Eddie Robot.

So where are the last two stars?!? What has ED65 done with them. When exactly is Doomsday? Answers ED! We need answers!

Case closed.

 

[Bm101]

Right. Ive had my tea now, Im feeling more sensible. Phew.
Did you ever do them brass rubbings at school? Get some thin paper, and shade some pencil over it. If you get the pressure right it might bring out some detailing thats not immediately obvious.
Might help. :wink:

 

[NazNomad]

Definitely made by The Illuminati Tool Co., I reckon.

 

[toolsntat]

If you step back and look at the "overstamp" you will see that it was stamped with the mark leaning towards the cutting edge.
This gives you a very deep MONK with 3 medium *** above and 1 light * above the centre of that.
No doubt in my mind it was a purpose made stamp and not individually done.

Monk(s) planes are seldom found and the only one I know of is metal.
MONKS AND SONS SHEFFIELD has a patent 1511 16th jan 1884.
ref David Russell collection book P.TAMPIA vol2 and here
http://www.jimbodetools.com/Uber-Rare-N ... 42740.html

A picture of the plane please would be a great idea if you could.

It is about time we found a forensics forum member who can do stamp x-ray analysis :roll:

Andy

 

[AndyT]

Andy, I think that's the MUNKS plane, as discussed here

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...ster-a-complaint-about-this-plane-t87033.html

 

[bugbear]

I've looked again, closely, at the "MONK" stamp, full size / closeup on photobucket.

it doesn't seem good enough to be a factory done stamp; in fact it doesn't look good enough to be
done with a factory made stamp.

Look at the faceting on the 'O'', and the very strangely shaped serif at the lower right of the 'M', and the strangely bulbous right hand side of the 'N'.

Sheffield made tool stamps are the work of very skilled men, and the marks they leave are gorgeous.

e.g. (not at random...)

I also note that the line between the row of 3 stars and the "MONK" is tapered; they're not parallel.

This leads me to suspect that the "MONK" and "3 stars" are separate stamps.

All this speaks (at least to me) of home made stamps, on a home re-forged blade.

I Think

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

I thought you were going to say you thought it was an owner's name, using commercial, individual letter stamps and a big hammer. An asterisk would be an easy thing to include in a set. I guess the iron is soft enough at the top to mark like that, though I've never tried.

Anyone want to do some experiments? It could sort of fit with the name not being recorded elsewhere and being over the top of a fainter maker's mark.