Modern machinery lifetime

[Beardo16]

Hi guys

Is current machinery meant to last as long as old cast iron? The reason i ask is im looking to buy a relatively expensive piece of machinery and wandered what the normal lifetime would be for newer age machinery.

Thanks for any help

Adam

 

[ceparkinson9]

it this the planner/thicknesser
charles

 

[Max Power]

Depends what you deem relatively expensive , if its top spec trade stuff then your grandchildren should still be using it when they retire. If el cheapo chaiwanese rubbish then expect to replace it at some point .

 

[woodbloke]

I usually go by the ratings in the Axminster catalogue as a general indicator of build quality. So 'Hobby' means very occasional usage by one individual through to 'Industrial' meaning continual double shift usage by more than one worker. If you pitch at something 'Trade' rated there's a reasonable chance that the build quality will be half-decent and that the machine will last a few years in a hobbyist 'shop - Rob

 

[Beardo16]

Yep the machine is trade quality.

I was just wandering if it was worth spending the money now as the price of everything is increasing.

Thanks for all the information guys

Adam

 

[tjwoodms]

I have not come accross anything new that stands upto the build quality of good old fassioned english kit because

1 mordern castings arnt as strong
2 Not as much care is taken on the biuld
3 Poor design of modern kit (its designed to be cheap to build)

Also even some of the italian manufacters are now have their machines biult in china one well known manufacter stamps made in germany but its onlt assembled there all the parts are produced in china.

If you want quallity go for a good rebuilt british machine. You didnt say what size your after but as a guide 12" wadkin Baos £2300 approx rebuilt, Wadkin Bts500mm £4500 rebuilt approx. these are still cheeper than the topend new stuff but will last a lifetime.

 

[TheTiddles]

I have not come accross anything new that stands upto the build quality of good old fassioned english kit because

1 mordern castings arnt as strong
2 Not as much care is taken on the biuld
3 Poor design of modern kit (its designed to be cheap to build)

Also even some of the italian manufacters are now have their machines biult in china one well known manufacter stamps made in germany but its onlt assembled there all the parts are produced in china.

If you want quallity go for a good rebuilt british machine. You didnt say what size your after but as a guide 12" wadkin Baos £2300 approx rebuilt, Wadkin Bts500mm £4500 rebuilt approx. these are still cheeper than the topend new stuff but will last a lifetime.

1 - not quite sure what makes you think that, generally metallurgy has improved over time, not regressed
2 - ermm, no. See explanation below
3 - Depends how you look at it, if it makes it affordable then isn't it good design?

The thing that seems to be overlooked is that these fantastic cast-iron machines that are so much better than any of this modern new-fangled rubbish is that when they were new, they were very, very expensive and came from a time where hobby users like many of us are could never afford such things. To make a fair comparrison, compare an old sedgwick machine, with a new one, I don't think there's much of a slide in standards.

Aidan

 

[tjwoodms]

Adrian you are correct modern metals have vastly impooved but most of these advances are not being used on even high end machinery for example alot of old english and german castings can be welded by a good welder but most italian or chinese castings cannot due to the carbon content.
And yes this has help reduce the price of new machines but if you want a machine that will see you into retirerment buy good refurbed old.

The reason segdwicks machine quality hasnt slipped so much over the years is standards didnt have so far to slip.

I supose at the end of the day it depends what you want from your equipment if you accept that if you buy new italian/chinese you will be replacing it sooner then thats fine. I myself would rather sell a customer a good quality refurbed machine in most cases. There are howevwe a few exeptions when buying a wide belt sander or edgebander and posibly panel saw go new

 

[L Harding]

Tim

are you suggesting a new felder or SCM planner thicknesser will not see a woodworker into retirement? I'd be amazed and if they didnt (as long as looked after of course)

Plus you mention the casting may not be as strong, but you cant ignore the fact they are more advanced in other areas. Sticking with the planner, how about lifting tables for better thicknessing extraction, or extremely precise digital readouts. You dont get any of them on the old stuff.

Luke

 

[tjwoodms]

luke

Lifting tables hmm yes they do make for better extraction and ease genral cleaning but on the other hand the swing on the table is another wear point. Lifting tables seem to be ok on more expensive machinery but on the lower end after a few years hard use tend to give problems with alignemnt i.e often
when the table is lowered it has moved not such a problem for the infeed table but can be problematic for the outfeed table.

Digital readouts are great when new but always bear in mind the when the machine gets older often spare parts like the linier encoder or the or the display become obsolete so you end up changing the whole system. to quote Italian manufacturer help desk "sorry that parts obsolete would you like us to send you a catalogue" when one of my customers called for parts on his £11k 4 year old machine.

When it comes to combi machines you may have no choise as there arnt many good old fashioned ones around but a well looked after 1960s dominion is just about bomb proof but very very heavy. I know where there is a really good one for sale in west cornwall. will the felder see you into retirement? with lite use maybe but under normal use prepare to be amazed luke

When i was with wadkin i came accross quite a few machines that dated from before wadkin started keeping records (1937) and could and still can get parts for i doubt anyone will be saying the same about any modern manufacturer

 

[markymark12]

My vote would be older kit in the main, when it comes to classical type machines. Dim saws, bandsaws etc. I have had both and now most of what is in the workshop is old Robinson, Wadkin etc. But would agree, wide belts, panel saws, etc are all far better now than they every were. As is extraction of course, most can be improved in some way, so i have never let this put me of. I also have a couple of Felder machines which are okay, but not something that would last a lifetime in a pro shop, where as all the classical gear i have, came from other shops and in the case of a 1.25ton robinson dim saw, a boat yard. All are quite some age, having already done 20years plus service, the guys using them never tended to go about their work with kid gloves, and buy the accessories plastic shine polish, every inch is adjustable for any wear, and in the case of parts, when the need arises it is a case of having something made up, which is not that hard. I recently had Prestileys make a new gib for the saw after it cracked on the bolt line. Cost was around £70.
Really depends on want you want to buy.

 

[tjwoodms]

Markymark

Robinson are to my mind the best machines ever built they make alot of the wadkin kit look like toys the only reason I tend to sell more Wadkin is there is more wadkin stoke around and parts are easier to get hold as there are many suppliers. Machines just arnt built like that anymore. My old boss at wadkin used to say robinson and wadkin had shot themselves in the foot by producing the machines to last too longl

The company you got your casting from are the only people that I know of offering a parts service for the robinson brand Im kinda hoping somone posts up a few others as it will make things easier.