Mobile phone - cautionary tale

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

RogerS

Established Member
Joined
20 Feb 2004
Messages
17,921
Reaction score
276
Location
In the eternally wet North
Take a dual-carriageway with the inside lane coned off for DVLA checks. Manned by a DVLA person and a copper. They pull you over for, say, an emission check. You park up. They tell you to stay in your vehicle with the engine running while they do their checks. Your mobile phone rings. Do you answer it?

If you answered'Yes' then collect 3 points.

Yes, I wasn't aware that technically even if you pull over and park up, if your engine is running then you are 'driving' and so can get done.


Which means that you can be driving along, your mobile rings and you pull in and park to answer it. Unless you switch off your engine then yo can get nicked.
 
Yeah, I'd heard something similar.

Makes sense when you see how many people were 'just pulling in' etc, etc to answer their phone, then get tempted to finish the call while 'just pulling off'....

Might not be anyone on here, but the are plenty of eejits driving while phoning, texting and checking their devices, (which do now offer emails and browsing on the go, of course).
 
But in the emissions check example above, surely common sense will usually prevail? If you're safely parked are you really going to get collared?
 
Why not, a woman was done by a PC for littering when she accidentally dropped a Wotsit out of her car window whilst parked.

They should have banned all use of mobile phones in cars.
 
DTR":11wuak5l said:
But in the emissions check example above, surely common sense will usually prevail? If you're safely parked are you really going to get collared?

Sadly no. In this instance it happened to my log man. It was the last day of the month (meeting quotas) and a very young, inexperienced, stroppy, bolshy copper.
 
woodpig":2slcpfrs said:
Why not, a woman was done by a PC for littering when she accidentally dropped a Wotsit out of her car window whilst parked.

They should have banned all use of mobile phones in cars.

How can you 'accidentally' drop a Wotsit?
 
You continue to be driving until you reach the end of your journey. Temporary stops mean you are still technically driving. Otherwise being stuck in a traffic jam would mean you are no longer driving and that is not the case.

Mick
 
MickCheese":4uwtjip9 said:
You continue to be driving until you reach the end of your journey. Temporary stops mean you are still technically driving. Otherwise being stuck in a traffic jam would mean you are no longer driving and that is not the case.

Mick

Where on earth do you get that idea from? It simply does not make sense and neither does it accord with the definition of 'driving' in the context of using a mobile phone.

If you are stuck in a traffic jam then, unless you have a fancy hybrid car like a Prius, chances are that your engine will still be running in which case you are technically 'driving'. But if it is a M25 jam and you are going to be stuck there for an hour or so then you switch your engine off. You are no longer driving. Feel free to use your phone.
 
My mate got points and a fine while in a jam by looking at the time on his phone!

Pete
 
Roger

It is a point of opinion, and that will be the opinion of a court. Stuck in a traffic jam and you are still driving. Most case law for driving comes from the drink drive legislation. You would be surprised what constitutes driving when it comes to drinking and driving.

Mick
 
MickCheese":aiofqc9v said:
Most case law for driving comes from the drink drive legislation.

Isn't it "Drunk in charge of a motor vehicle" rather than "drunk driving"
 
I would contest the points in the strongest terms - if your log man was TOLD to leave his engine running then he was complying with the law enforcement request as part of the check. He can easily say he WOULD have turned his engine off but for the "official" request by law enforcement to leave it running and any such attempt to issue points based on that should be considered entrapment and unlawful. I would ask WHY he was told the engine be left running as part of the checks (unless there were emissions checks or similar carried out at the time), as the engine running may have had no actual bearing on the tests and therefore your logman could and should have been allowed to turn his engine off to answer the call (as he knew he should) to avoid the penalty. I would also ask that the ombudsman also look into if there were other cases of points being issued by that particular copper under this same situation during those checks. Basically I'd make the copper sweat and justify any and all points given that day.

Any defense they may mount to the effect of "he should have asked permission from the copper" would be pure hokum, because :
A) it's extremely unlikely the copper would have been in range to get his attention while your logman's phone was ringing.
B) even if the copper was in range, pretty much anything sort of frantic waving and shouting by your logman would in all likelihood have been ignored by the copper anyway.
C) as stated already the copper TOLD him to leave his engine running thus denying your logman the choice to turn it off to answer the phone.

They cannot prove he would not normally have turned off the engine without being able to produce a detailed video log of his all his movements that align with his mobile phone activity log; which they won't have and would not even be able to get without a valid legal reason that he was under suspicion for a serious crime - and you CAN prove he was TOLD to leave it running, just tell them you'll take it to court and call the DVLA person as a witness who will not doubt attest the the fact the copper was telling ppl to leave their engine running.

Case closed.

( I cannot and I mean CANNOT abide hoity toity coppers, I've sadly met a few and they are half the reason there is so much crime; because dealing with these coppers makes YOU feel like the criminal, so people don't report crimes or come forward as witnesses.)

As to the "drunk driving" legislation, that is not the problem, again it's the coppers - my brother got nabbed for "drunk driving" when he went to the car to get something out of the boot around xmas, he sat in the car (as many ppl do) and popped the boot (broken lock), got the item, re-locked the car and was halfway back to the house, when he got nabbed by a copper who had been not 15 foot away, who tried to pin a "drunk in charge of a vehicle" charge on him, bloody well breathalized him on the path to the front door! - we managed to prove in court that the copper had seen him both get into and OUT of the car all in the space of a minute without closing the drivers door, turning on the engine or even inserting his keys - the case was dismissed.

Tell your log man to not roll over and take it up the tailpipe, because that's how bad coppers stain the entire force. (I don't hate coppers, I just hate the bad ones)

I've also witnessed a traffic warden about to attempt to issue a parking ticket to a car that had literally pulled up right next to me to go to the cashpoint, I saw the warden RUN ACROSS THE ROAD to get to the car - I told the warden the car owner was not 5 foot away and would be back in maybe one minute, and added if he issued a ticket I would act as a witness to contest it as it was a single and not a double yellow so he had a time limit to breach before a penalty was warranted. He walked off.

Edit: sorry for the wall of text - you touched a sore nerve
 
DTR":6yfu6tz6 said:
But in the emissions check example above, surely common sense will usually prevail? If you're safely parked are you really going to get collared?

The Police have as many 'Jobsworths' as any other organisation DTR!!
So maybe it would depend on the officer.

You might get a Magistrate to consider mitigating circumstances if you actually pulled overand stopped, before making a call.
:D
 
I didn't mean stopping the engine Roger. Sorry, my bad phrasing I fear! #-o

Not switching off means you are technically driving. Some Magiustrates might take the view that at least you stopped the car, so there was less likelihood of you driving. Depends on the 'beak', I suppose! :oops:
 
Ah well I'm alright then 'cos my car, like the majority of new cars these days has as an economy measure, stop / start technology which means every time I stop, put the car out of gear and foot off the clutch the engine switches off.
However that matters not one jot because newer cars nearly all have blutooth built in as well. There is absolutely no excuse for a driver to use a handheld mobile these days because the add on blutooth is very cheap to buy and efficient to boot!

Banning mobiles altogether is codswallop as handsfree is no more distracting than smoking, satnav, radio, kids in the back or worse - the MIL and what about partners having a disagreement, very common and dangerous.
May as well just ban driving (hammer).

If you really want to get me started then post a thread about distractions like road and advertising signage, women with short skirts (or blokes if that's your bent :lol: ) and alcohol should be zero tolerance as well. Maybe driving tests when you reach 75 instead of self declarations. If I type long enough I'll think of loads more.

e.g. Isn't it strange that a stretch of road with an excellent safety record suddenly suffers several major accidents in days when they stick up 5 miles of cones to make it 2 way traffic, where the temporary 50mph limit can never be reached. Can it be that the drivers are so pi**ed off at seeing barely a soul working that they become annoyed and distracted?
 
Lons":2se901nv said:
If you really want to get me started then post a thread about distractions like road and advertising signage, women with short skirts (or blokes if that's your bent :lol: ) or you're a woman and alcohol should be zero tolerance as well. Maybe driving tests when you reach 75 instead of self declarations. If I type long enough I'll think of loads more.

On that particular subject I've been saying for years that the driving test should be mandatory every 5 years to renew your licence. iirc top gear (the old version with Tiff Needel and Quentin Wilson) or maybe 5th gear did a similar test to see how ppl did and all of them failed.

My ex GF developed odd seizures 15 years after she had passed her test (before I met her), the doctors reports declare that she should stop driving and inform the DVLA, she didn't. I only found this out after she had a seizure at the wheel while we were just about to park the car not 10 minutes after coming off the motorway, it scared the absolute carp out of me as she'd not even told ME she was having them. After we split I photocopied the doctors report and sent it to the DVLA. They obviously did nothing as she's still driving - she came by my place a week or so ago trying to sell me tools!
 
Back
Top