Machine refurbishment.

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kevinlightfoot

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I am about to start refurbishing a Dominion Morticer.I have the machine in bits and I have started the laborious task of stripping the awful hammerite paint that someone has repainted it with.My question is what is the best way to go about this and I need advice on what kind of paint to use to repaint.Sorry if this is the wrong section but I was unsure.
 
I find to remove thick old paint the easiest way is get an old wood chisel reasonably sharp and chisel it off like you would use a scraper you could try a Stanley blade in a holder but I find them too flimsy for paint removal. The Stanley blades are good for shaving rust of machined surfaces.
You could also go down the flapper disc in a grinder route which is very messy and you will need decent protection. Dominion is an old maker so probably used lead paint and filler.
Another method if the paint is sound is to sand and fill any imperfections and then prime and paint.
With regard to paint I like quick drying machinery enamel which can be mixed to any colour and costs about £10 a litre from a motor factors
I've been doing a kitchen and the Mrs wanted the fridge colour matching to the units, I used 2 pack car paint and quite like the finish so maybe I will try it on my next machine. Really expensive though.

HTH
 
There is another trick. Bill Carter made it famous on here a while back but me and my mate Dave also stumbled on it through Joint Effort and Dumb Luck a while back. Get a an old worthless chisel. Turn it bevel down and grind it flat. It works on both metal and wood as a scraper. Sure the knowledge was around once then 'found' again,but it works like a charm. You'll soon be grinding down smaller sizes of chisel if you're anything like me. So as it gets near blunt give it another 5 second dose on the grinder. The beauty of it becomes apparent as soon a you try it.
Been doing up an old meddings drill lately. Initially I used a spray primer. Longstoryshort, i ended up buying some craftmaster paint. The brush on primer is gods own work. It takes more time than spraying from a rattlecan but the difference... If you lay on a couple of coats of primer, undercoat and gloss with a good brush like a purdey it's quite astounding what results you can achieve, even a beginner like me can do it. I'm no Wallace by a stretch of course but I am a devil for detail when I get my head into something. This paint is not cheap but it is very very good and works out ok against hammerite etc when you consider the finish you get.
Look at it this way, 2 coats of high fill automotive spray filled nowt. 2 coats of the craftmaster primer alone hid most minor dings. That's a lot of prep work gone. I won't ever use another paint (for what it's worth).
Might not suit you but it might help. Website is worth a look around at least. Link below is for their machine paints. Worth taking a look at their help/tips page.
https://craftmaster.myshopify.com/colle ... ry-colours

Second link is their painting tip page...
http://www.craftmasterpaints.co.uk/about/hints-tips/

Cheers
Chris

Edit: http://www.billcarterwoodworkingplanema ... ff-chisel/
 
I renovated an old Tom Senior M1 milling machine a couple of years ago. It too had been attacked with hammerite, a right mess.

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I tried scraping with the intention of potentially sandblasting and discovered that there was lots of filler underneath the paint which would have been a nightmare to reapply. So in the end I sanded it down and filled in where the paint/filler was damaged.

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It turned out OK in the end, I was lucky that the primer and topcoat didn't interact with the old paint.

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Cheers
Andy
 

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That is a lovely colour and a great renovation.
I'm about to refurbish an bench top Axminster lathe which would look great on that colour,can you tell me the colour/ paint please?
Thanks
Rob
 
Thanks Wallace and Rob. I hope I haven't hijacked the post with shiny machinery however as it was my second and biggest overhaul, I did find out the hard way on several issues that hopefully others can avoid.

I would scrape off the hammerite if it was a bare casting or sheet metal, and sand blast if you can, this avoids any issues with the new topcoat reacting with the old paint and gives a good key for paint.

If you do sandblast, paint if after quickly, and not just primer as that is usually porous, the shed condensation season is coming soon, plus it will be too cold to paint in an unheated workshop in a couple of months so get a move on. If you use epoxy primer, that is not porous so you can leave it without a topcoat, however it is not UV stable so cover it up if you have lots of sunlight in your workshop until you get time to put the top coat on.

If it has been filled I would be tempted to put the scraper down sand it smooth and fill any imperfections, I used upol fantastic for big holes and upol dolphin glaze for smaller imperfections. I didn't use wet and dry but used abranet with a vacuum. You can get different bases for curves etc.

Before painting I used upol slow panel wipe and clean cotton rags, old shirts will do. You can get slow and fast, the slow gives you time to give it a good rub and remove most of the residue before it dries.

When it comes to new primer/top coat, it is worth testing it on a smaller component or area first. There is nothing more disheartening than spending days sanding and filling only to see the top coat wrinkle up.

This only happened on the feed selector control box, I think it was because this had been leaking oil for years and was soaked into the casting and filler. I scraped this off, thoroughly degreased it

I did get the big cast aluminium belt covers sandblasted, big mistake, they were full of filler and it took quite a while to get it smooth as the castings were as rough as a badger's. I used an etch primer before a coat of primer and top coat, this is necessary on aluminium otherwise the paint will not adhere and peel off it time. However epoxy primer sticks like the proverbial and can replace etch primer in most instances, it is also a good barrier for paints that don't like each other, but difficult to sand if you get a sag and you leave it to fully cure before attacking it.

On the milling machine I used synthetic enamel and undercoat, probably Paragon or Craftmaster both very similar, may even be the same, both do a Tom Senior Green and many other machines plus RAL colours etc. If I was doing it now I would use epoxy primer then whatever top coat, I would probably use Lechler epoxy, it comes un-tinted so you usually have to specify what colour you want. The reason is that it's as tough as old boots, is impervious to moisture if the film is thick enough and unbroken and effectively nullifies the top coat from reacting with the original paint. There is the risk that the epoxy may react with the original paint, always try a bit first before spraying it all over.

I sprayed the miller but I know people that roller epoxy primer and get a superb finish, even a whole car. As far as topcoat is concerned, I prefer to spray but if you must brush then you can add wet edge extenders like Owatrol oil to the paint, this helps brush marks to sink as well as giving you more time to push the paint around. I have some on the shelf but not used it in anger yet, but I know people that have used it successfully on large panels like tractor wings etc. and swear by it.

I tend to use synthetic paint as a top coat as it is a lot more durable than cellulose and I don't have the proper PPE for 2 pack. The epoxy I use is safe with the right face mask, and I always spray it in the downstairs barn which has lots of ventilation. I would not touch 2 pack unless you know what you are doing and you have the right PPE including air fed mask (from a remote air source) and completely cover all skin etc.

The problem with synthetic is you can't cut if back like cellulose or 2 pack, so the finish you spray/brush/roller is what you end up with. To avoid issues I don't paint below about 10c, preferably higher, plus preparation and cleanliness is everything.

Here's my fourth renovation, a 50" Colchester lathe, before

triumph4.jpg


and after

paint1.jpg


Paint is Paragon, Colchester Dove grey above, and I think it was Colchester Raven below.

Cheers
Andy
 

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Thanks guys for your information,I started the motor casting today and I found the chisel scraper method was indeed the way to go.I am now going to look at your recommended paint systems and let you know how I go on.If I get my morticer looking half as good as your machines I will be very happy.
 
That dove grey is what's going on the drill Andy. And a bit of myford grey.
Thanks for the tips on owatrol and other advice.
 
Cheers chaps!

Now I have learned what those chisel shaped objects found in every hardware store theese days is intended for.
Scraping paint off old machinery!


Old chisels are far too valuable for that use.
 
Thanks Andy,
Very interesting, I've never done anything like this and it looks "slightly" complicated at first glance but Paragon have some good advice on their site so after my hols I'll look into the sandblasting.
Best of luck Kevin, keep us up to date.
Rob
 
Rob do you mean the painting side looks complicated or the strip down and rebuild?The mechanical part is childplay if you ever had a meccano set it's the same just with adult size parts.The electrical side is a different story and of course is expensiveI am going to use an inverter from a firm called drives direct and that is eyewateringly pricey.The inverter and enclosure cost 425 pounds but it's simple to connect and lets me run the 400 volt motor at full power.So with paint and some hard work I should get the machine up and running from a13 amp plug for around 500pounds,luckily I got the machine and a load of oak and mahogany at a very reasonable price so all in all I will be very happy once the morticer is finished .Many thanks for everyone's interest its comforting to know there is always a fountain of knowledge out there to rely on.I will try to work out how to put photos on the site but computer technology and I don't get on very well!
 
That sounds a lot of money for a vfd, your morticer wont have a big motor on it. Is the motor dual voltage? I got one from drives direct off ebay for a lathe and I'm sure it was around £200
 
Im with Wallace, there are 400V inverters which have two stages to achieve the higher line voltage. I’d have thought it be far cheaper to have the motor altered to make it dual voltage and buy a standard inverter. Alternatively, buy a new dual voltage motor and standard inverter if you want speed control, if not a single phase motor and new contractor and onverliad relay for the on off control.
 
Hi Kev,
Mechanicals and electrics are fine for me, rebuilt old Triumph bike engines and cars too, spent the last 35 years repairing washing machines etc.
Painting has never been my forte, gloss, emulsion nah! I'm too impatient on the prep so although I'd love to do my mini lathe think I might just strip it and stick it in the dishwasher :oops: I only picked it up yesterday and on closer inspection it's mainly dirt and lack of maintenance.
Hope to hear some good news from you so get those photos coming.
Rob
 
wallace":2wa8cso2 said:

I bought a 10hp 240v to 415v inverter from Direct Drives about 2 years ago. It was ecpensive but serves the whole workshop including a 7.5hp lathe. The quote fo 3 phase to the farm was well over 20k so was cheap in comparison and means I can buy cheaper 3 phase macines. I only ever use on macine at a time although it would run a couple of small ones simultaneously no problem.
 
memzey":ej3de1c4 said:
That one requires a dual phase motor Mark. The VFD's with voltage step up cost more.

If his motor states just 400v on the tag doesn't always mean that it is not dual voltage. I took an old motor to a winders and he pulled some wires from the windings altered them to make it dual. Then I could use the cheaper vfd and for grand some of £20

John I could do with an upgrade, I'm still using a static and have to idle a motor to improve the 3 phase when starting the bandsaw or the planer
 
Where have you seen vfd's for £20? At that price it would make a re-wind at the motor factors well worthwhile.
 
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