Mac or Microsoft?

[loz]

Er redhat 6 here.

 

[CHJ]

... and Linux is anything you want it to be.

Where's the Linux option?

Last time I looked it was Linux software behind the glossy Mac front end, is this not the case anymore?

I stopped playing with linux boxes fited with hard disks when someone offered me remote server space (running linux?) and a little plastic 150mm square plastic box for a firewall router instead of having to constantly update my Linux smoothwall machine.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Last time I looked it was Linux software behind the glossy Mac front end, is this not the case anymore?

It's always been based on BSD - similar, I grant you. Nowadays, you can, theoretically, run Windows natively on Mac hardware, although it's usually done in a virtual machine.

I have also seen OS-X running on a Dell (Intel) laptop. There was a compile-it-yerself version about on the Internet some years back (around the time of 10.3 release, if I remember correctly). I think there was talk of Apple releasing it for PC/Intel boxes, but then they signed their hardware deal with Intel. I heard nothing more thereafter.

Our Macs are all G3 and G4. We don't have Intel ones at present, but some of the big screen ones presently available are gorgeous.

 

[cutting42]

Oh goody, another opportunity for the dribbling crazed Applebois to spread their propaganda supporting overhyped, overly expensive restrictive practising, HUGE global corporate company (Apple are bigger than Microsoft).

Of course the stuff works, it is fully proprietary end to end so it b****y well should work well, it doesn't give a tinkers cuss about interfacing to 3rd party and backwards compatibility. Windows (or the ever so clever windoze :roll: ) is trying to work with hardware and software from the rest of the world and suffers because of it.

I have beaten my head against the wall with Windows as well but accept it is a compromise. Windows 7 is excellent, so is XP and NT4. I agree Win 2000 and Vista were terrible but for the most part PC's do just work as well despite the exhortations of the above who are desparate to justify their expensive toys.

Don't mean to come across as angry of a Windows apologist but yet another flippin apple love in was just too much.

Cheers - I feel better now.

Gareth

 

[Dibs-h]

Oh goody, another opportunity for the dribbling crazed Applebois to spread their propaganda supporting overhyped, overly expensive restrictive practising, HUGE global corporate company (Apple are bigger than Microsoft).

Of course the stuff works, it is fully proprietary end to end so it b****y well should work well, it doesn't give a tinkers cuss about interfacing to 3rd party and backwards compatibility. Windows (or the ever so clever windoze :roll: ) is trying to work with hardware and software from the rest of the world and suffers because of it.

I have beaten my head against the wall with Windows as well but accept it is a compromise. Windows 7 is excellent, so is XP and NT4. I agree Win 2000 and Vista were terrible but for the most part PC's do just work as well despite the exhortations of the above who are desparate to justify their expensive toys.

Don't mean to come across as angry of a Windows apologist but yet another flippin apple love in was just too much.

Cheers - I feel better now.

Gareth

Yep - I'm with you brother!

Apple is touted as freedom - yet look at the things no-one talks about and it's a bigger lock in than with anyone else! May disagree - fine.

And Apple aren't a weener anymore!

Yes Windows 7 is excellent!

Dibs

 

[Blister]

Oh goody, another opportunity for the dribbling crazed Applebois to spread their propaganda supporting overhyped, overly expensive restrictive practising, HUGE global corporate company (Apple are bigger than Microsoft).

Of course the stuff works, it is fully proprietary end to end so it b****y well should work well, it doesn't give a tinkers cuss about interfacing to 3rd party and backwards compatibility. Windows (or the ever so clever windoze :roll: ) is trying to work with hardware and software from the rest of the world and suffers because of it.

I have beaten my head against the wall with Windows as well but accept it is a compromise. Windows 7 is excellent, so is XP and NT4. I agree Win 2000 and Vista were terrible but for the most part PC's do just work as well despite the exhortations of the above who are desparate to justify their expensive toys.

Don't mean to come across as angry of a Windows apologist but yet another flippin apple love in was just too much.

Cheers - I feel better now.

Gareth

I am so upset

Poor me I have to put up with a IMac 24"

Never gone wrong in 2 years

Never had a problem in 2 years

Everything works as it should

Always does what I want it to do

Sleep mode is great

I almost look forward to it taking 3 or 4 mins or longer to fire up

And get slower and slower

And keep paying out for anti virus software ( as I have done many times before ) and still get Trojans and virus's

Where did it all go wrong for me

Please help me get back to the dark side

Yer Right :mrgreen:

O and did I mention



I LOVE MY MAC

 

[gus3049]

Oh goody, another opportunity for the dribbling crazed Applebois to spread their propaganda supporting overhyped, overly expensive restrictive practising, HUGE global corporate company (Apple are bigger than Microsoft).

Of course the stuff works, it is fully proprietary end to end so it b****y well should work well, it doesn't give a tinkers cuss about interfacing to 3rd party and backwards compatibility. Windows (or the ever so clever windoze :roll: ) is trying to work with hardware and software from the rest of the world and suffers because of it.

I have beaten my head against the wall with Windows as well but accept it is a compromise. Windows 7 is excellent, so is XP and NT4. I agree Win 2000 and Vista were terrible but for the most part PC's do just work as well despite the exhortations of the above who are desparate to justify their expensive toys.

Don't mean to come across as angry of a Windows apologist but yet another flippin apple love in was just too much.

Cheers - I feel better now.

Gareth

Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear,

This why I'm glad I didn't do this survey. I knew someone would do it. Evangelists on both sides are just as bad. The only question I ever ask is "if given the choice which would you use" and "how come ALL the people I know who own both, never use the PC?"

Its more about the quality of the experience for me. Same as driving a decent car when all of them do an acceptable job these days.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Of course the stuff works, it is fully proprietary end to end so it b****y well should work well, it doesn't give a tinkers cuss about interfacing to 3rd party and backwards compatibility.

Two things:

0. Apple has been no more proprietary (with its PCs) than anybody else, less so in many respects. in the early 1990s you used to be able to get a multi-volume developers' guide, covering all aspects of them. They have always been early adopters of new interface standards, e.g. SCSI, Firewire and USB, all of which has worked well. They even distribute developer tools withtheir operating systems, AND it's still recognisable BSD underneath. I can't be the only one who uses a terminal window and the man pages!

1. If you ever worked with workstations and/or minis, you'll know that Apple's stance was generous compared to the lockdowns of the bigger 'iron' manufacturers. There were some very clever tricks employed by the likes of Silicon Graphics, HP, Sun, etc. to prevent 3rd party hardware being connected. One reason for that (apart from profit!) was that being conservative ensured the systems worked.

2. Microsoft has always, infuriatingly, done stuff its own way, right or wrong. Examples: early networking, Windows security model, Internet Explorer, boot models for removable devices, endless re-naming of established computing terms, and so on.

It's not clear cut at all.

As I said, I use both, and I much prefer Macs.

E.

PS: My first ever business trip to the 'States was in the early 1990s, to Mac World in San Francisco, selling third-party hardware to connect to them. Our product was bundled differently for the Mac market, but the hardware was identical to what was sold for PCs, but without the need for an adapter card or drivers (SCSI was built-in).

 

[cutting42]

I am so upset

snip
Some words......
snip/


I LOVE MY MAC

No worries Allan, I think they work great as well, I actually have both, my beef is less with the kit than people telling me every five minutes how great they are for some occasionally dubious reasons.


OK here's an analogy - a car analogy which as everyone knows are the best ones!

I have an awesome car that I think can drive circles round probably 99% of everyone else's on the forum but I do not feel the need to post a poll or a list of benefits of my car every time someone mentions cars. Guess what not everyone like cars as much as me and I don't really care what others think about my car or what they prefer to drive.

So why can't the Apple posse keep their self satisfaction to themselves unless directly asked

 

[cutting42]

0. Apple has been no more proprietary (with its PCs) than anybody else, less so in many respects. in the early 1990s you used to be able to get a multi-volume developers' guide, covering all aspects of them. They have always been early adopters of new interface standards, e.g. SCSI, Firewire and USB, all of which has worked well. They even distribute developer tools withtheir operating systems, AND it's still recognisable BSD underneath. I can't be the only one who uses a terminal window and the man pages!

1. If you ever worked with workstations and/or minis, you'll know that Apple's stance was generous compared to the lockdowns of the bigger 'iron' manufacturers. There were some very clever tricks employed by the likes of Silicon Graphics, HP, Sun, etc. to prevent 3rd party hardware being connected. One reason for that (apart from profit!) was that being conservative ensured the systems worked.

2. Microsoft has always, infuriatingly, done stuff its own way, right or wrong. Examples: early networking, Windows security model, Internet Explorer, boot models for removable devices, endless re-naming of established computing terms, and so on.

0. Never said they did, it is not a bad thing in itself just don't compare apples with oranges :wink:
1.Yup SGI workstations with early 3d graphics, very cool tech loved them but insanely expensive and no way comparable with a PC
2. Agreed, their early attempts at n/w were horrible, I came from Netware and hated what MS did at the time but in the end had to adopt the MS way. I think that if MS could change one thing from history it would have to be the WSM

I really am not trying to act as defender of the faith here just having a little Friday rant.

 

[Blister]

I am so upset

snip
Some words......
snip/


I LOVE MY MAC

No worries Allan, I think they work great as well, I actually have both, my beef is less with the kit than people telling me every five minutes how great they are for some occasionally dubious reasons.


OK here's an analogy - a car analogy which as everyone knows are the best ones!

I have an awesome car that I think can drive circles round probably 99% of everyone else's on the forum but I do not feel the need to post a poll or a list of benefits of my car every time someone mentions cars. Guess what not everyone like cars as much as me and I don't really care what others think about my car or what they prefer to drive.

So why can't the Apple posse keep their self satisfaction to themselves unless directly asked

OK you want to bring cars into the equation :mrgreen:

For all of us who feel only the deepest love and affection for the way computers have enhanced our lives, read on.

At COMDEX recently, Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."

In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only 95 percent of the roads.

6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.

7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.

8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

9. Every time a new car was introduced, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again, because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

10. Oh yeah, and last but not least . . . you'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off!



:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[Jonzjob]

If I can stick my nose in here a moment! I started this thread to see who had what and as far as I am awaire it wasn't a bible thumping session as to which was best. I too don't give two short pony poos who drives what car either. I have the one I like and it can't drive rings around many other cars, but it does it's job very reliably and in good comfort. So, can we just get back on thread and cease all the "I have the better bit of kit than you" bashing.

As a matter of interest I think that all of the PC type machines are a load of pineapple's and about as user friendly as a cornered rat! After 18 years as an IBM hardware service engineer on mainframes I would rather work on something like an AS400 for a week than a bleedin PC for 5 minutes. At least it can actually help you to fix problems! And they can't be hacked either.

 

[Mark A]

I've got a 9 year old Dell PC. I've never used a Mac and to be honest, I actually didn't know what the difference was until now, so thanks John for starting this. Computers confuse me, and I'm only 18! My computer has been wheezing and coughing for a long time now so I'll be starting to look for a replacement, though I've just had a quick scan through the Apple website and the Macs are expensive!

By the way, what car have you got Gareth? Not that I drive - the insurance is too much. One quote I got was £22K. For that I could buy a Mac!

Mark

 

[gus3049]

If I can stick my nose in here a moment! I started this thread to see who had what and as far as I am awaire it wasn't a bible thumping session as to which was best. I too don't give two short pony poos who drives what car either. I have the one I like and it can't drive rings around many other cars, but it does it's job very reliably and in good comfort. So, can we just get back on thread and cease all the "I have the better bit of kit than you" bashing.

As a matter of interest I think that all of the PC type machines are a load of c r a p and about as user friendly as a cornered rat! After 18 years as an IBM hardware service engineer on mainframes I would rather work on something like an AS400 for a week than a bleedin PC for 5 minutes. At least it can actually help you to fix problems! And they can't be hacked either.

Absolutely John. I believe this started as a discussion between us and wouldn't it be interesting to see the split. Not to evangelise, just out of interest. And it is interesting as I expected to see a huge number of PCs surrounding a little pool of Macs but is pretty well balanced.

Interesting but in no way important and certainly not worth venting too much spleen over.

 

[Jonzjob]

Mark, for 22K you could buy a mac, pair of wellies and water proof trousers, all matching :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Just for a matter of interest the French don't call wellies Wellington boots. Can't think why??

 

[cutting42]

10. Oh yeah, and last but not least . . . you'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off!

I remember that, pretty funny, actually my car does require you to press the Start button to stop the engine

 

[Blister]

10. Oh yeah, and last but not least . . . you'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off!

I remember that, pretty funny, actually my car does require you to press the Start button to stop the engine

Renault ?

 

[cutting42]

If I can stick my nose in here a moment! I started this thread to see who had what and as far as I am awaire it wasn't a bible thumping session as to which was best. I too don't give two short pony poos who drives what car either. I have the one I like and it can't drive rings around many other cars, but it does it's job very reliably and in good comfort. So, can we just get back on thread and cease all the "I have the better bit of kit than you" bashing.

As a matter of interest I think that all of the PC type machines are a load of c r a p and about as user friendly as a cornered rat! After 18 years as an IBM hardware service engineer on mainframes I would rather work on something like an AS400 for a week than a bleedin PC for 5 minutes. At least it can actually help you to fix problems! And they can't be hacked either.

Firstly I have no interest in "bashing" other peoples choices. You are setting up a poll with an opinion in your opening remark clearly stating your view seemingly looking for fellow apple cores to congratulate you on your smart and independent purchase and at the same time telling people who have purchased PC's they have made a big mistake.

Secondly the language of hyperbole as you have used above just looks like for point scoring. Again the comparison of dedicated hardware/software systems (AS400) to a PC is used incorrectly.

I would be delighted to enter into a sensible debate on the pros an cons of the Apple approach vs the windows approach but every time the subject starts we get pages of Apple militia telling PC users how stupid we are.

For the record I have a long (28 years) background in electronics and computer technology hardware design with software development for embedded hardware as well as general coding in C++ and Pascal. I love many of Apples products and they have been a thought and marketing leader for many years. However they have until recently been a bit part player in the commercial computer world and even now whilst trying to break into this market they cannot compete with Linux/Unix boxes and are nowhere in the workstation control market which is still ruled by the connectivity of PC's.

 

[cutting42]

Renault ?

No, not a Renault, I don't think I will confess just yet as I am positive it will attract negative comments :wink:

 

[gus3049]

Even now whilst trying to break into this market they cannot compete with Linux/Unix boxes

I thought they were Unix boxes and have been since System 10 was introduced.

By the way I can't see how you can accuse John of starting this thread to gloat at you poor PC users. I have already explained it was a matter of interest nothing more.

However, it was guaranteed to start this usual boring argument.