Light fitting replacement
- Thread starter NickDReed
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MarkAW
Established Member
In terms of electrical load? Should be fine. It's what I plan to do soon
Argus
Established Member
As MarkAW said.......
However, There is an ouch-factor..........
Twin fluorescent fittings were specified and used because a stroboscopic effect present in single-source discharge lighting at certain frequencies can make machines appear stationary when in fact rotating.
Twin fittings cancel this effect out.
I've heard of LED lights doing the same thing......... It depends on the type of ballast used. I believe that there's been a post or two on it in the past, so it's worth a bit of research.
.
However, There is an ouch-factor..........
Twin fluorescent fittings were specified and used because a stroboscopic effect present in single-source discharge lighting at certain frequencies can make machines appear stationary when in fact rotating.
Twin fittings cancel this effect out.
I've heard of LED lights doing the same thing......... It depends on the type of ballast used. I believe that there's been a post or two on it in the past, so it's worth a bit of research.
.
Hi Mark, thanks.
I would open the question up to "am I capable" but I already know the answer its "usually not"
That's interesting, I'll look into it. Thanks for the heads up.
Bristol_Rob
Established Member
Size isn't everything I'm told 
Check the ratings and talk to your supplier - they are usually very helpful in working out your needs.
Check the ratings and talk to your supplier - they are usually very helpful in working out your needs.
I'd think two panels would probably match two tubes for output, and the panels seem usually to be 48w.
I've been very happy with the LED tubes I fitted into my existing fluorescent fittings.
Just change the starter (supplied), change the tube, job done.
I got some from Screwfix first that weren't great, then I got these from TLC which are perfect.
Just change the starter (supplied), change the tube, job done.
I got some from Screwfix first that weren't great, then I got these from TLC which are perfect.
I converted my entire house to led ten years ago and at the time, in my conservatory there used to be two wall lights. They each used a 100w halogen bulb, I exchanged the internals for 10w led chips with a suitable driver and there was no noticeable reduction in light output, that's an electrical reduction of 180w. I'm now in the process of replacing these with a pair of 6w led panel lights, they're 9cm in diameter and light output now surpasses the earlier 10w leds. In fact they're so impressive I've ordered enough to replace the florescent tubes still in my outbuildings and garage. (I hadn't bothered as I rarely use these at night) to replace the two 65/80w tubes in my garage I'm going to use 8 x 6w led panels for better light distribution and wholly believe the light output will double, whereas the electrical consumption will more than halve. I should add after installation of solar panels a decade ago, my electric bill is virtually £10 a month. Leds are the future, embrace them, personally I save a small fortune from importing them from China, everyone turns their noses up at the thought, although most things you buy are in fact manufactured there, often under licence by European countries, I just cut out the very greedy middle men.
It's worth noting that in the past, incandescent bulbs were rated in Watts ,we associated that with how bright they were. Led units are also rated in Watts but that only specifies to their electrical consumption, the light output is measured in lumens, not helpful if you're a first time user as there's really nothing to compare that measurement to, so initially I aimed for the lowest available leds and worked my way up from there. For example, I exchanged the MR16 halogen 60w units for 3W led ones and that was sufficient, the same in my kitchen, although I ideally should have gone to maybe 6W units. Pendant light fittings, I exchanged 100W incandescent bulbs initially for 3w led equivalent B22 units, you could exist with that, but you struggle to do anything accurately, 10W was better but most people would require 20W.
Also worth noting that ten years go there were two options for light colour, warm or cold. Warm light is closer to incandescent bulbs and is noticeably yellow only if you try cold light versions which are incredibly white in comparison, they now offer day light bulbs,which falls almost exactly in the middle and is the closest you can currently get to daytime sunlight, albeit from a different source. The intensity of which you choose. If you ask a retailer for their opinion on output, make sure you ask if they personally have used the exact model they are suggesting, as there are vast differences between different led manufacturers and led types. Or do as I do and order from China and try them yourself, they're so cheap from there if you guess wrong you haven't lost much other than the delivery time.
Also worth noting that ten years go there were two options for light colour, warm or cold. Warm light is closer to incandescent bulbs and is noticeably yellow only if you try cold light versions which are incredibly white in comparison, they now offer day light bulbs,which falls almost exactly in the middle and is the closest you can currently get to daytime sunlight, albeit from a different source. The intensity of which you choose. If you ask a retailer for their opinion on output, make sure you ask if they personally have used the exact model they are suggesting, as there are vast differences between different led manufacturers and led types. Or do as I do and order from China and try them yourself, they're so cheap from there if you guess wrong you haven't lost much other than the delivery time.
Total light output by a tube or panel or whatever is measured in lumens.
If you can find a lumens number for your existing fluorescents (or any other tube of the same length / wattage / general type), that will tell you what you get from a new fluorsecent tube.
Compare the output in lumens from your proposed LED panels to that.
As both the tubes and the panels provide a pretty widespread diffuse light and don't focus those lumens into a beam (like a car headlamp does). A simple comparison should be a fair guide.
Pay a little attention to colour when you pick your LEDs. This is measured in "degrees Kelvin". 4000K is a good neutral white for a workshop or kitchen. 2700 - 3000K is warmer, more like a lightbulb colour. Anything above 4000 upto a high of about 6800 looks increasingly blueish and harsh. You'll be living with these for years so it's worth taking a minute to check this out and decide what you like.
If you can find a lumens number for your existing fluorescents (or any other tube of the same length / wattage / general type), that will tell you what you get from a new fluorsecent tube.
Compare the output in lumens from your proposed LED panels to that.
As both the tubes and the panels provide a pretty widespread diffuse light and don't focus those lumens into a beam (like a car headlamp does). A simple comparison should be a fair guide.
Pay a little attention to colour when you pick your LEDs. This is measured in "degrees Kelvin". 4000K is a good neutral white for a workshop or kitchen. 2700 - 3000K is warmer, more like a lightbulb colour. Anything above 4000 upto a high of about 6800 looks increasingly blueish and harsh. You'll be living with these for years so it's worth taking a minute to check this out and decide what you like.
Terrytpot
Established Member
I replaced the fluorescent jobbies in my garage to 45W LED Batten Light 5ft Frosted Cover Triproof Fittng IP66 Replacement for T8 off "the auction site" and have been very happy with them..my only regret is now that I'm aware panels are available I wonder if they would have been more appropriate for my work area as I'm in the process of moving my lights off the ceiling and onto the wall as I had overhead storage that was blocking some of their output but if those panels were shallow enough in depth they could possibly be included in the design of my o/h storage...hmmm.
A couple of years ago I looked at replacing two twin 5 foot battens attached below the roof trusses with cheap LED panels between the trusses. The information for the cheap panels was very limited - light output and 'lifetime', nothing on switching cycles or light spread.
My current battens light-wash the ceiling so the spread is > 180 degrees. More expensive proprietary panels where the full data was available were in the 120 to 150 degree range. To light the shelving on the walls would have needed panels closer to the edge of the room. What had started as a swap out was becoming a rewire job.
I am in and out of my workshop a lot and I thought that since LEDs have no warm up time I could turn them on and off as needed rather than just leave them on. I have just bought some V-Tac bulbs which claim >20,000 switching cycles and 5 year life so ~10 cycles per day; if this applied to the panels as I was intending to use them I would maybe get 3-4 years out of them. The cheap panels don't seem to be repairable (anyone tried?) and LED bulb failures I have had have been electronics failures not the LED chips so maybe they could be hacked with an external LED driver to extend usable life. If not, after 4 years for me they would need to be replaced.
My wife works with colour and needs lighting with accurate colour rendering (CRI >98) and you can get suitable fluorescent tubes from premium brands. This is different to the colour Sideways mentions. When we had the last failure I looked for high CRI LED products but they were high cost and limited to CRI ~95. I cannot tell the difference (rubbish colour vision), but the artist can, and if you work with colour it is something to consider..
In the end my decision was based on size. The truss spacing is 500mm, the cheap panels I was looking at were 600mm square so would have need to be mount underneath trusses again. To get the coverage I would have needed five panels which were then £30 each (cheaper now). I still have the battens and when the tubes die I plan to change them to fittings similar Terrytpot's above.
My current battens light-wash the ceiling so the spread is > 180 degrees. More expensive proprietary panels where the full data was available were in the 120 to 150 degree range. To light the shelving on the walls would have needed panels closer to the edge of the room. What had started as a swap out was becoming a rewire job.
I am in and out of my workshop a lot and I thought that since LEDs have no warm up time I could turn them on and off as needed rather than just leave them on. I have just bought some V-Tac bulbs which claim >20,000 switching cycles and 5 year life so ~10 cycles per day; if this applied to the panels as I was intending to use them I would maybe get 3-4 years out of them. The cheap panels don't seem to be repairable (anyone tried?) and LED bulb failures I have had have been electronics failures not the LED chips so maybe they could be hacked with an external LED driver to extend usable life. If not, after 4 years for me they would need to be replaced.
My wife works with colour and needs lighting with accurate colour rendering (CRI >98) and you can get suitable fluorescent tubes from premium brands. This is different to the colour Sideways mentions. When we had the last failure I looked for high CRI LED products but they were high cost and limited to CRI ~95. I cannot tell the difference (rubbish colour vision), but the artist can, and if you work with colour it is something to consider..
In the end my decision was based on size. The truss spacing is 500mm, the cheap panels I was looking at were 600mm square so would have need to be mount underneath trusses again. To get the coverage I would have needed five panels which were then £30 each (cheaper now). I still have the battens and when the tubes die I plan to change them to fittings similar Terrytpot's above.
600mm square panels are the way to go as they produce an excellently flat light and no glare. I'm sure that " the auction site"(!) will have ones that are NOT the drop in frame ceiling type, but most of the inexpensive ones I've seen are such and are a little more of a bother to mount.
HamsterJam
Let’s take it apart to see what’s inside….
30+ years ago I saw this effect on a machine. It wasn’t quite synchronised with the lighting flicker and so appeared to be rotating slowly backwards.
I was also told for this reason, (metalworking) machines and grinders etc should be fitted with individual lights using incandescent (filament) bulbs in workshops using fluorescent lighting.
I guess the world has moved on since then and now we have cool bulbs that don’t flicker or if they do, the frequency is so high it isn’t an issue.
flying haggis
Established Member
if any member is in blackburn these could be a bargain for them
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-x-led...544928?hash=item42265e2260:g:rUoAAOSwVT5f001U
at £5 a panel
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-x-led...544928?hash=item42265e2260:g:rUoAAOSwVT5f001U
at £5 a panel
I installed 4 x LAP Twin 4ft LED Batten White 43W 4400lm lights from Screwfix in my old workshop late last year as the old fluorescent tubes were pretty shot. I installed them in a line down the centre of the workshop and at first I was impressed with the extra light. However once I started to mark out work I realised I had a problem with shadowing and often can't see where I am marking. In my new shop I will be installing 2 rows of panels along the length as others on this forum have done.
Cabinetman
Established Member
To counter the strobe effect from my fluorescent tubes which are in two rows down the length of the workshop I had them wired up to 2 different phases – (I am fortunate to have three phase electric) alternating left to right as well so that no two bulbs next to each other or opposite are on the same phase. Ian
That looks very nice Nick, much neater than a load of old fluorescent tubes,
That looks very nice Nick, much neater than a load of old fluorescent tubes,
