Keep the burr ?

[Grahamshed]

I have been sharpening my tools for the first time ( using the Sorby pro edge )

With woodwork chisels you 'remove' the burr. Not sure how you would do that on gouges, or if you should.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

good question...

On all tools you should except for scrapers where generally they perform better doing a sheer scrape ie at 45 deg actually using the burr. This leaves a pretty fine finish off the tool if you get it right.

The truth is that it doesn't really make a lot of difference and I have experimented with this for folks over on the Tormek forum. Tormek would have you believe its necessary to improve performance (it also rather neatly justifies their honing wheel). My attitude is that within a pico second of you presenting a tool edge to a piece of spinning wood the burr would be gone anyway so it doesn't need to be honed off.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

the point I'm really making is that when you're starting out, keeping the burr or not is such a hair splitting discussion. Because you've raised a burr in the first place proves you've got to the edge and therefore sharpened the tool and that's easily good enough for now.

Also once you've sharpened your desired profile on the pro-edge you should move right up in grits so the next time you sharpen you're just tickling with 240or even 320, certainly no lower than 180. That way you're only leaving the finest of burrs in the first place. Shape with the lower grits...sharpen with the finer grits. If you have the grind you like, stay fine and don't worry about the burr

 

[Dalboy]

I have a standard bench grinder and sharpen most of my tools on that I have never bothered to remove the burr have had no problems this way. The only things that I use a diamond card on is my scrapers and special tools like my ring tool and the texturing tool and then it is only a quick rub over

 

[CHJ]

..... My attitude is that within a pico second of you presenting a tool edge to a piece of spinning wood the burr would be gone anyway so it doesn't need to be honed off.

Precisely, most woods are more abrasive than the burr, why else would you need to keep sharpening HSS tools.
Using honing wheels on turning tools is not something I would encourage for someone new to sharpening other than polishing the Flutes to aid chip flow PRIOR to sharpening, (a profiled MDF disc is ideal for this. ) care is needed even with Skews not to round the cutting edge.

It's very easy to form a rounded over micro bevel and this results in effectively blunting the tool when trying to ride the bevel. (totally different to carving gouges where no rubbing a bevel comes into play)

 

[Grahamshed]

Thats what I was thinking guys but it is as well to ask
This riding the bevel malarky sounds dead easy but judging by the ridges I often get I am not very good at it yet.

 

[petercharlesfagg]

Thats what I was thinking guys but it is as well to ask
This riding the bevel malarky sounds dead easy but judging by the ridges I often get I am not very good at it yet.

Graham,

The ridges WILL disappear but it all depends on which tool you are using for which job and how you are using it!

I have made several hundreds of bowls, dishes and platters over the past 22 years and whenever the situation arises where the bevel is causing the ridges to appear, I change the tool.

I have several gouges of different sizes, diameters etc. that have a second bevel so that I can continue to use my favourite 1/2" bowl gouge size even on small diameter items and not get the ridge effect.

This is not a lecture, but persevere, as and when finances permit purchase more gouges etc. and grind them to suit. The old adage is so very true, I still do it myself, practice, practice, practice.

Warmest regards, Peter.

PS! I forgot, keeping the burr as has been pointed out is wonderful for the first few contacts with the wood, then, dependent on the wood being turned, it usually disappears fairly quickly. I have always stropped the burr away after grinding scrapers etc, I turn the gouges upside down and hone the inside of the flute immediately after sharpening for the same reasons.

 

[Grahamshed]

Hi Peter
I have only managed to get on the lathe twice so far and have been playing with the roughing gouge and 3/8 standard grind spindle gouge on an old bit of 2x2 pine I can obviously get it to ride the bevel while I hold it still but doing it and sliding it along the tool rest at the same time is not coming naturally yet

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

when you're roughing Graham, try and turn the flute of the gouge in the direction you're moving slightly. So if you're moving from left to right, rather than present the tool at right angles to the wood which is the natural desire because you think that way you'll get "most bevel" contacting, rotate the gouge slightly so the flute is pointing in the direction you're about to set off ie to the right. That generally finds the sweet spot assuming the tool is sharp and the corners of your 2x2 pine will just pop off very fast. Its also easier to control the depth of cut with the flute angled to direction of travel so you end up with a more uniform cylinder ie same diameter along its length.

 

[Dalboy]

Graham if you are cutting from right to left then start with you weight more on your right foot and as you turn towards the left move you weight to your left foot. By doing this you will notice that with the chisel held correctly will travel quite easily to the left. That is easier to show someone than trying to write it down

 

[Grahamshed]

Cheers Dal, I will give that a go.

 

[Dalboy]

Cheers Dal, I will give that a go.

You had better read that again I got my left and rights mixed up have edited it to read

Graham if you are cutting from right to left then start with you weight more on your right foot and as you turn towards the left move you weight to your left foot. By doing this you will notice that with the chisel held correctly will travel quite easily to the left. That is easier to show someone than trying to write it down

 

[Spindle]

I can obviously get it to ride the bevel while I hold it still but doing it and sliding it along the tool rest at the same time is not coming naturally yet

Hi

To assist in maintaining the gouge presentation try the following:

Assuming you are right handed - grip the gouge loosely on it's underside with your left hand and thumb on top of the flute and with your index finger in contact with the tool rest - as you traverse the gouge slide your index finger along the tool rest.

As you bring on the cut by lifting the gouge handle, press your right elbow into your side and lock it there - traverse the gouge as Dalboy says by transferring your balance from right to left, don't move your feet.

As an aside - you can use the roughing gouge almost like a skew but without the fear of catches by rolling it so as it cuts on the wings.

Do you have Keith Rowley's book? if so I would suggest following his advice rather than U Tube videos - well it worked for me

Oh - and don't bother about removing the burrs

Regards Mick

 

[Tazmaniandevil]

Ditto. All of the above. Moving along the toolrest will come naturally eventually. I think I was lucky that my tool rests on the Myford had a profile the same shape as my index finger so sliding along it was reasonably easy.
Don't worry too much about the burrs incidentally. My first attempts at sharpening were so bad, I was lucky to get an edge I could use best of three.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

by the way Graham, when using the pro-edge wear a mask if you're not already. You don't want HSS particles lining your respiratory tracts.

 

[KimG]

For any cutting edge like a gouge or a skew a burr does have an impact although it depends on the nature of the work you are doing as to whether it is worth removing it or not, but by it's very nature of being a part of a cutting edge it cannot but help reduce the overall sharpness.

I have a small slipstone that I use to remove the burr from gouges when I want a super fine cut, but if I am just removing material, say for example like shaping a bowl, then I don't bother. For fine detailed work though I find it does have a positive effect.

 

[Grahamshed]

by the way Graham, when using the pro-edge wear a mask if you're not already. You don't want HSS particles lining your respiratory tracts.

It might help slice up all the dust thats down there.

 

[petercharlesfagg]

Spindle wrote something that will help you more than all of us experienced amateurs!

Quote"Do you have Keith Rowley's book? if so I would suggest following his advice rather than U Tube videos - well it worked for me"

When I started I propped the book up at the back of my single bar lathe and copied the suggestions religiously, it really does work and will give you a wonderful grounding for continuing to enjoy the obsession!

Regards Peter.

 

[Dalboy]

I also have that book and found it very useful and worth going through the exercises he sets

 

[Spindle]

Hi

A couple more things to look at:

What's the tool traversing surface of your tool rest like? if it has nicks or casting marks it's worth polishing these out using abrasive wrapped around a sanding block.

Keep a stub of a candle in reach of the lathe - rub it over the tool rest frequently, you'll be surprised how much easier it is to traverse the tool on a waxed rest.

Finally, before you start using the skew, (or any other tool with sharp corners along it's length - parting, bedan, beading tools), grind off the sharp corners along it's length. You don't have to take off much metal, just enough to round the corners and stop them 'chewing up' your tool rest.

Stick with it - the elation when it 'clicks' for the first time is great.

Regards Mick