Bod
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Thanks Worn thumbs, just down loaded VLC, it worked! even for me.
Bod
Bod
Just upgraded to Windows10
- Thread starter Deadeye
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Terry - Somerset
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A lot of posters on here are why Microsoft changed their policies - rather than sell software and provide updates indefinitely they turned it into a product licence.
I had been using the same version of Microsoft Office for 10 years or more. It did all I wanted so I had no motivation to upgrade. When I upgraded to W10 I found there was no driver for my 8 year old printer. Not totally dis-heartened - by upgrading printer I now access it remotely from my laptop.
Home computing has grown from providing upgrades which genuinely had useful features recognisable to most users, to a "white goods level" where they often only get replaced when broken. As a business model the old way of doing things was broken.
The Microsoft marketing trick has been to deliberately break your home network digitally forcing you to upgrade. And technology marches on - CDs and DVDs are rapidly becoming consigned to the history books. The laptop being used for this post has no CD/DVD drive and it hasn't yet been a problem.
Those who have the time, skill and inclination can go with Linux. I am not a complete numpty when it comes to IT but neither am I naturally gifted. If I buy something I want it to work quickly easily and seamlessly - I do not want to spend time trying to implement clever apps and workarounds which may be successful or leave me frustrated and fed up with an inoperable machine.
I had been using the same version of Microsoft Office for 10 years or more. It did all I wanted so I had no motivation to upgrade. When I upgraded to W10 I found there was no driver for my 8 year old printer. Not totally dis-heartened - by upgrading printer I now access it remotely from my laptop.
Home computing has grown from providing upgrades which genuinely had useful features recognisable to most users, to a "white goods level" where they often only get replaced when broken. As a business model the old way of doing things was broken.
The Microsoft marketing trick has been to deliberately break your home network digitally forcing you to upgrade. And technology marches on - CDs and DVDs are rapidly becoming consigned to the history books. The laptop being used for this post has no CD/DVD drive and it hasn't yet been a problem.
Those who have the time, skill and inclination can go with Linux. I am not a complete numpty when it comes to IT but neither am I naturally gifted. If I buy something I want it to work quickly easily and seamlessly - I do not want to spend time trying to implement clever apps and workarounds which may be successful or leave me frustrated and fed up with an inoperable machine.
To be fair security has also become a much more vital mainstream consumer issue, and the idea that Microsoft or Apple or whoever should keep you safe forever because you paid a hundred quid or so for an operating system ten years ago does not make much economic sense (for them).
AES
Established Member
@Jake: QUOTE: .... because you paid a hundred quid or so for an operating system ten years ago does not make much economic sense (for them). UNQUOTE:
Maybe not for them, but it does to me - multiply by the number of users, and "just a hundred" is a HUGE amount - MS have got themselves into the ipso-facto world wide standard.
Anyway: 1. Adding everything up it's a LOT more than a hundred quid, and; 2. I'm not talking a lifetime (your "forever") but sorry, I do NOT feel that 20 or 25 years is by any means unreasonable, especially not when you look at the profit levels that especially MS have made over the years. In my "PC lifetime" (started roughly 1990/91) I've been on Win 3.1, Vista, Win 2000, Win XP, and Win 7. For me, 2 or max 3 OSs should have been enough in that 30 years.
Nope, "enough is enough, messrs MS. Goodbye & good riddance"! (hammer) (hammer) (hammer)
Maybe not for them, but it does to me - multiply by the number of users, and "just a hundred" is a HUGE amount - MS have got themselves into the ipso-facto world wide standard.
Anyway: 1. Adding everything up it's a LOT more than a hundred quid, and; 2. I'm not talking a lifetime (your "forever") but sorry, I do NOT feel that 20 or 25 years is by any means unreasonable, especially not when you look at the profit levels that especially MS have made over the years. In my "PC lifetime" (started roughly 1990/91) I've been on Win 3.1, Vista, Win 2000, Win XP, and Win 7. For me, 2 or max 3 OSs should have been enough in that 30 years.
Nope, "enough is enough, messrs MS. Goodbye & good riddance"! (hammer) (hammer) (hammer)
Irish Rover
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AES":z7sw4ktj said:
That was me an as I said in the earlier post you are not going to get your update automatically as you did before, you will have to manually download them every second Tuesday of the month.
You are being extremely unfair in your post. Your W7 licence most likely came bundled with your computer and cost you peanuts.
Your product has not dropped dead, it still works. What has happened is that Microsoft now no longer provide the free, one monthly security updates that you have always enjoyed.
As an example, how many years of free servicing do you normally get when you buy a car?
W7 was released 11 years ago. Most people got it pre installed on their computer and then received free monthly security updates for many years.
A very good deal
AES
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@Irish Rover: Sorry, I simply do NOT agree with any of that thinking. Maybe "unfair" in your opinion, but definitely NOT in mine. Each to his own eh?
BTW, the ONLY reason I bought my laptop with Win 7 pre-installed (and it took me long enough to find it in, I think, 2015 or 6, 'cos I already knew I didn't want Win 8 or 10) was because XP, which I DID buy, was no longer supported.
And yes, I do understand I'll have to download my Win 7 updates myself. But at least they'll still be there, AND be FREE!
As for "free" MS updates, a lot of those were installed not only to fight the virus etc, idiots but also because MS didn't do the job of developing XP fully in the 1st place - nor their earlier OSs either.
I don't mind paying a reasonable amount for anti virus etc, fixes - even though MS have demonstrably made HUGE profits - after all, I could still take my 20+ year old car to the garage for servicing (and pay for it of course), the garage would NOT say "sorry, your car is more than 20 years old, we won't service it any more". They'll be happy to take my money.
As said, each to his own, and if you're satisfied with the MS offerings, good for you.
I on the contrary am most definitely not, and consider their whole business model unethical and immoral, hence my personal decision to have no more to do with them. Their whole approach is that of the throwaway society, which I abhor.
Edit for P.S. Anyway, thanks for the heads up re MDL Irish Rover. That was really helpful info - as said, I don't know quite how I did it, but it does seem that my Win 7 is updated and working OK for now, and I'll go back there in a week or two for a Win 7 update/s. Just as a matter of interest, WHY is/are whoever it is doing these updates doing it for free? Could it just be that I'm not the only one who's absolutely disgusted with MS and their business "ethics"??
BTW, the ONLY reason I bought my laptop with Win 7 pre-installed (and it took me long enough to find it in, I think, 2015 or 6, 'cos I already knew I didn't want Win 8 or 10) was because XP, which I DID buy, was no longer supported.
And yes, I do understand I'll have to download my Win 7 updates myself. But at least they'll still be there, AND be FREE!
As for "free" MS updates, a lot of those were installed not only to fight the virus etc, idiots but also because MS didn't do the job of developing XP fully in the 1st place - nor their earlier OSs either.
I don't mind paying a reasonable amount for anti virus etc, fixes - even though MS have demonstrably made HUGE profits - after all, I could still take my 20+ year old car to the garage for servicing (and pay for it of course), the garage would NOT say "sorry, your car is more than 20 years old, we won't service it any more". They'll be happy to take my money.
As said, each to his own, and if you're satisfied with the MS offerings, good for you.
I on the contrary am most definitely not, and consider their whole business model unethical and immoral, hence my personal decision to have no more to do with them. Their whole approach is that of the throwaway society, which I abhor.
Edit for P.S. Anyway, thanks for the heads up re MDL Irish Rover. That was really helpful info - as said, I don't know quite how I did it, but it does seem that my Win 7 is updated and working OK for now, and I'll go back there in a week or two for a Win 7 update/s. Just as a matter of interest, WHY is/are whoever it is doing these updates doing it for free? Could it just be that I'm not the only one who's absolutely disgusted with MS and their business "ethics"??
Irish Rover
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You don't go back to MDL, you go to the MS Updates catalogue site as explained in the MDL instructions.
And tomorrow is the day. 2nd Tuesday of the month.
And tomorrow is the day. 2nd Tuesday of the month.
AES
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OK, thanks mate. I'll see what happens tomorrow!
I think expecting 20 years of service for the price of one copy of windows is a little unfair, assuming say £100 for the licence that's just £5 a year. Just because the business as a whole is profitable, doesn't mean they should therefore make a huge loss on windows servicing.AES":1vhdtqn6 said:
Also, you could take your 20+ year old car to a garage, but they might suck their teeth and tell you all the parts are like hen's teeth etc. etc.
AES
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OK Rich C, that's your opinion, but as already made clear, it's NOT mine.
Firstly, as already said it's a LOT more than a hundred quid, reckoned up over the years since 1990/91.
Second, the car analogy (which I didn't start BTW) is not really valid - AFAIK, NO spare parts (hardware) are involved in software updating. Some PC hardware MAY need updating as genuine computing capabilities improve, but that's not what I'm talking about here.
Thirdly, the car analogy is not valid because in the real world there are a lot of businesses that specialise in supporting old cars. And anyway, the idea that continuing support is loss-making is just not correct. In aviation (as just one example) a lot of OEMs make most of their profits precisely from supporting 20+ year old products.
But IMO anyway, "just because the business is profitable" is in the MS case generally NOT because they've produced a good product but, IMO, is because they have very cleverly manoeuvred themselves into a situation where the average user has little real alternative except to jump on the MS bandwagon and "enjoy" the - in reality, VERY expensive - ride!
But as said, I'm quite happy to accept that others have another take on the MS situation, though my own remains unchanged - i.e. MS are largely a bunch of rip off merchants of the 1st order and will not therefore receive any further support from me as soon as I've worked out an alternative that suits me.
I agree that I've started this "anti MS rant" here, and that I've made my viewpoint perfectly clear. But I've also made it perfectly clear that if others have another opinion they're welcome to it as far as I'm concerned.
So as I don't want this thread to turn the way some others have gone on the generally excellent UKW Forum, I shall henceforth "cease and desist" from pushing my own viewpoint any further. OK?
(NOT throwing my toys out of the pram, I shall continue to simply monitor this thread in case any worthwhile info comes up).
Firstly, as already said it's a LOT more than a hundred quid, reckoned up over the years since 1990/91.
Second, the car analogy (which I didn't start BTW) is not really valid - AFAIK, NO spare parts (hardware) are involved in software updating. Some PC hardware MAY need updating as genuine computing capabilities improve, but that's not what I'm talking about here.
Thirdly, the car analogy is not valid because in the real world there are a lot of businesses that specialise in supporting old cars. And anyway, the idea that continuing support is loss-making is just not correct. In aviation (as just one example) a lot of OEMs make most of their profits precisely from supporting 20+ year old products.
But IMO anyway, "just because the business is profitable" is in the MS case generally NOT because they've produced a good product but, IMO, is because they have very cleverly manoeuvred themselves into a situation where the average user has little real alternative except to jump on the MS bandwagon and "enjoy" the - in reality, VERY expensive - ride!
But as said, I'm quite happy to accept that others have another take on the MS situation, though my own remains unchanged - i.e. MS are largely a bunch of rip off merchants of the 1st order and will not therefore receive any further support from me as soon as I've worked out an alternative that suits me.
I agree that I've started this "anti MS rant" here, and that I've made my viewpoint perfectly clear. But I've also made it perfectly clear that if others have another opinion they're welcome to it as far as I'm concerned.
So as I don't want this thread to turn the way some others have gone on the generally excellent UKW Forum, I shall henceforth "cease and desist" from pushing my own viewpoint any further. OK?
(NOT throwing my toys out of the pram, I shall continue to simply monitor this thread in case any worthwhile info comes up).
Irish Rover
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The worst case financial scenario is that the most a home user would have had to pay for W7 Home would have been around £100 from memory, for the home edition retail. Nowhere near that if it came bundled with a computer.
The latest you could still buy the retail version was 2013.
That gave you an excellent operating system and 7 years of free security updates between 2013-2020
At around £14 per year that is not an "expensive ride"
On the contrary, it is damn good value.
The latest you could still buy the retail version was 2013.
That gave you an excellent operating system and 7 years of free security updates between 2013-2020
At around £14 per year that is not an "expensive ride"
On the contrary, it is damn good value.
worn thumbs
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Maybe not expensive at £14 per year.Still more than I have paid for Linux in the 14 years I have been using it and no need for anti virus software either.I suppose if Microsoft have enough users hooked they can continue to print money,its your choice.I did explain how to leave them behind for those who might be motivated to do so.
Are software updates not the spares parts in that analogy? They're not free to produce at all.AES":26eop25v said:
Granted third parties are not able to maintain old software to the same extent as old cars due to the way intelectual property las is set up.
Irish Rover
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worn thumbs":m137rv5a said:
Ah yes, user friendly Linux with inbuilt security through obscurity.
They used to make the same claim for MacOS before they became more popular.
If you use and enjoy Linux then God bless you, but please don't give normal folks the false hope that it will be a good Windows alternative for them. It really isn't.
Cast your mind back to some of the pleas for help on here with basic computer problems. Those users wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance with Linux.
For anyone who wants an insight into this, here is an article written by a fair minded Linux user:
https://itvision.altervista.org/why.lin ... rrent.html
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worn thumbs
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I wouldn't advise a newbie to use just any Linux distro.I would say though that most Windows users would be likely to get to grips with Linux Mint or PC Linux in half an hour or so.Why would I say this?Well a few years ago I had an old desktop box that had lost the hard drive which had been Windows98.I found an old hard drive and installed Puppy Linux on it then gave it to my brother,who was finding that an inquisitive teenager in the house wasn't really giving him the chance to keep up to date with his emails.He found it fairly intuitive and once in a while I would give him DVDs on which i had burned various Linux distros to try as live installations.
After a few discs he decided that Peppermint was more to his liking than Puppy and installed it instead.This was the first time he had installed an operating system and he is a bit of a technophobe-to this day he hasn't managed to pair a mobile phone with a bluetooth device.With this knowledge he was equipped to help one of his colleagues whose mother in law had a crippled computer.He passed on the Peppermint DVD and instructions on how to run it live in order to transfer the cherished files to a usb memory stick.The mother in law was so pleased with what she saw that she asked for Peppermint to be installed and as far as I know she may still be using it.
Anybody who fancies Gentoo or Slackware won't have as easy a time.
After a few discs he decided that Peppermint was more to his liking than Puppy and installed it instead.This was the first time he had installed an operating system and he is a bit of a technophobe-to this day he hasn't managed to pair a mobile phone with a bluetooth device.With this knowledge he was equipped to help one of his colleagues whose mother in law had a crippled computer.He passed on the Peppermint DVD and instructions on how to run it live in order to transfer the cherished files to a usb memory stick.The mother in law was so pleased with what she saw that she asked for Peppermint to be installed and as far as I know she may still be using it.
Anybody who fancies Gentoo or Slackware won't have as easy a time.
AES
Established Member
This is a genuine question for Irish Rover and worn thumbs please - (and for anyone else who has real practical experience of the following, and not "just" opinions):
I've already made it crystal clear what I think of MS. That opinion will not change "fair" or not.
I've heard from quite a few disparate and apparently knowledgeable sources that unlike when it first came out, at least some versions of Linux (or whatever name it goes under - that's a confusion for me for a start!) that it/they is/are is no longer solely the territory of those who enjoy fiddling around - for want of a better word, "Linux" is only for "computer geeks".
I on the other hand am by no stretch of the imagination a geek - quite the contrary. In fact I think it's fair to say that if you put me into a "class" of people learning how to operate a "normal domestic computer" for the first time, all with no previous experience at all, I would definitely be the densest and slowest learner in the whole group! And furthermore, beyond learning what is absolutely necessary to get a working computer capable of doing the stuff I want it to do, I would have no interest in learning anything more either!
So to "IR" and "wt" - "etc" - I've already said I'm thinking of going to some "linuxy thing" to break my "MS millstone". So do you think I I be able to do that, bearing in mind my above-described level of "knowledge" and interest?
And BTW, I have no objection at all to buying some sort of anti-virus software on a regular monthly/yearly basis, plus a firewall I guess, whether the "linuxy thing" really needs it or not.
Hope you can help, I stress, it's a genuine Q from me. TIA.
I've already made it crystal clear what I think of MS. That opinion will not change "fair" or not.
I've heard from quite a few disparate and apparently knowledgeable sources that unlike when it first came out, at least some versions of Linux (or whatever name it goes under - that's a confusion for me for a start!) that it/they is/are is no longer solely the territory of those who enjoy fiddling around - for want of a better word, "Linux" is only for "computer geeks".
I on the other hand am by no stretch of the imagination a geek - quite the contrary. In fact I think it's fair to say that if you put me into a "class" of people learning how to operate a "normal domestic computer" for the first time, all with no previous experience at all, I would definitely be the densest and slowest learner in the whole group! And furthermore, beyond learning what is absolutely necessary to get a working computer capable of doing the stuff I want it to do, I would have no interest in learning anything more either!
So to "IR" and "wt" - "etc" - I've already said I'm thinking of going to some "linuxy thing" to break my "MS millstone". So do you think I I be able to do that, bearing in mind my above-described level of "knowledge" and interest?
And BTW, I have no objection at all to buying some sort of anti-virus software on a regular monthly/yearly basis, plus a firewall I guess, whether the "linuxy thing" really needs it or not.
Hope you can help, I stress, it's a genuine Q from me. TIA.
If you want free, simple software to make a computer work for basic browsing, video watching, emails etc then Linux is fine.
If you want to you anything more advanced such as photo editing, document production, control other devices, use cloud backup services etc then it really isn't fit for purpose. Sure it might do all of those things, eventually, when you work it out. But will the output be compatible with anyone else in the real world? Unlikely.
If you want to you anything more advanced such as photo editing, document production, control other devices, use cloud backup services etc then it really isn't fit for purpose. Sure it might do all of those things, eventually, when you work it out. But will the output be compatible with anyone else in the real world? Unlikely.
I have converted my older PCs to Chromebooks. New lease of life, easier to use than anything else, totally free, and does 80% of everyday computer tasks.
https://www.neverware.com/freedownload
https://www.neverware.com/freedownload
Irish Rover
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AES, if you get one pre configured and your requirements are basic you may find that you like it.
But come the day when something needs to be done eg installing a wireless printer, you will wish you had never set eyes on it.
Some people with the right character type (or geeky as they call them nowadays) relish that challenge. From your description of yourself, you will not.
We had a pet name for Macs way back which was PC's For Beginners. Why not try a Mac?
Support the Chinese sweatshop workers
https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/01 ... nditionsaz
Bear in mind when comparing how MacOS performs compared to Windows or Linux. Apple only need to make sure it works on a few configurations of hardware, all built by themselves.
Windows and Linux need to work on all the other computers in the world. All of them with different hardware configurations.
But come the day when something needs to be done eg installing a wireless printer, you will wish you had never set eyes on it.
Some people with the right character type (or geeky as they call them nowadays) relish that challenge. From your description of yourself, you will not.
We had a pet name for Macs way back which was PC's For Beginners. Why not try a Mac?
Support the Chinese sweatshop workers
https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/01 ... nditionsaz
Bear in mind when comparing how MacOS performs compared to Windows or Linux. Apple only need to make sure it works on a few configurations of hardware, all built by themselves.
Windows and Linux need to work on all the other computers in the world. All of them with different hardware configurations.
AES
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Thanks for all the replies folks. Still mulling it all!
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