Just a little chuffed!

[woodbloke]

Mine need to be capable of very fine work and need to be able to take a very fine, controlled paring cut leaving a finished surface.

...as do mine. 35deg is probably too steep for a honed bevel on A2, mine work superbly with the bevel at 32deg and I too can take a controlled paring cut to leave a finished surface.
This sort of discussion could go on 'ad infinitum', suffice to say that all of us have our different methods and preferences...what works for one may not necessarily work for the other :wink: - Rob

 

[Modernist]

When you feel the edge you can get on those AI chisels you realise there is no need to look further for standard blades. You must have the ability for delicate paring with a bench chisel which, as stated above, requires a shallow angle. With planes that is also also largely true but there is also the issue of ease of use. I use 57 deg EP on my LN 62 with my high angle blade and it produces a fine result on difficult grain but I wouldn't like to push it all day.

 

[woodbloke]

You must have the ability for delicate paring with a bench chisel which, as stated above, requires a shallow angle. With planes that is also also largely true but there is also the issue of ease of use. I use 57 deg EP on my LN 62 with my high angle blade and it produces a fine result on difficult grain but I wouldn't like to push it all day.

Agreed...a shallow honed angle on the blade is more effective for a delicate paring cut, in softer timbers The same angle in a much harder timber will cause the edge to collapse, so somewhere a compromise needs to be reached, which is around a honed bevel of 30deg for an O1 steel chisel edge. In my experience, A2 will collapse at 30deg, hence the reason for a slightly higher angle of 32deg.
Having looked at Larry's site, the quality of the planes is outstanding, but I assume they're all made in beech, which is off moderate density so that a lower pitch on the chisel edge blade would be fine...try the same trick on some of the timbers that Philly uses (African Blackwood for example) and you'll find a very different story
When I did the test on chisels, the edges were brutally tested to destruction (12 very heavy blows with a lignum maul into greenheart) and some did indeed collapse very swiftly :shock: and there were some surprises as well. The A2 steel blades held up best of all, but the AI and others weren't far behind. After re-honing (and in some cases a lot of regrinding) they were tested using paring cuts on soft (pine) and hardwood (oak) and again, there was very little to choose between the actual blade performance, but the LN had it on overall performance

Edit - TLN says this on his site, regarding plane blades:

Lie-Nielsen O-1 Tool Steel Blades

Our A-2 Steel blades will hold an edge extremely well, especially when sharpened at an angle of 30 degrees or higher. Some folks however prefer O-1 Tool Steel blades. An O-1 blade will take a slightly finer edge when sharpened at 25 degrees or lower, making them useful for slicing or paring. So in response to customer requests, we are making our most popular blades available in O-1.
- Rob

 

[Modernist]

Well that seems fair enough if not entirely honest at 30 deg. I don't however recall any such comments when the A2 were launched. I am thinking of going to Rycotewood next month so maybe continue the discussion there.

On a practical note many people are using the excellent Veritas II honing guide. There is no stop for 32 deg but if you set the stop to 25deg on the middle scale and the roller to the red scale you will end up with about 33 deg

 

[woodbloke]

I am thinking of going to Rycotewood next month so maybe continue the discussion there.

Look forward to it...I'll be there all day on the UKWorkshop bench on Saturday (with lots of other guys from the forum) - Rob

 

[Aled Dafis]

I am thinking of going to Rycotewood next month so maybe continue the discussion there.

Look forward to it...I'll be there all day on the UKWorkshop bench on Saturday (with lots of other guys from the forum) - Rob

Are there any plans/developments re. the show. I'm getting quite excited, although I haven't booked my hotel yet. Let me know if I can do anything to help.

Cheers

Aled

 

[woodbloke]

I am thinking of going to Rycotewood next month so maybe continue the discussion there.

Look forward to it...I'll be there all day on the UKWorkshop bench on Saturday (with lots of other guys from the forum) - Rob

Are there any plans/developments re. the show. I'm getting quite excited, although I haven't booked my hotel yet. Let me know if I can do anything to help.

Cheers

Aled

Aled - around the end of the month or beginning of Feb, I intend to have a trawl back through the Rycotewood thread and then let members know in a new thread who's attending (or hopes to attend) on each day and what they're bringing to the party.
It's all going to be low key and relaxed, so nothing set in concrete. The main proviso, as I said in the thread, is that we should have a minimum of two members on the bench at any one time.
If there's something you want to chip in with (plane kits for example)... feel free! - Rob

 

[Aled Dafis]

If there's something you want to chip in with (plane kits for example)... feel free! - Rob

Yes, I'll bring along my planes/kits. I WILL have my small smoother kit ready by then (mind you, I've been saying that since about September).

I'm available all day Saturday.

Cheers

Aled

 

[woodbloke]

Yes, I'll bring along my planes/kits. I WILL have my small smoother kit ready by then (mind you, I've been saying that since about September).

I'm available all day Saturday.

Cheers

Aled

Aled - what's the old saying about the 'road to Hell is paved.....' :lol: See you on the day, should be a good 'un - Rob

 

[Vann]

...but if you set the stop to 25deg on the middle scale and the roller to the red scale you will end up with about 33 deg

:-k :?: :?: :?: :?:

There is no stop for 32 deg...

True, but setting standard angles (yellow) at 30° and adjusting the roller to 3 o'clock gives you 31.7°, while 6 o'clock (down) gives you 32.1°, which is pretty damn close.
Also, using the high angles (red) 30° setting and adjusting the roller to 6 o'clock gives you 31.8°.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Modernist]

Well that's at least two ways to skin a cat

I take it those measurements are in the small print I havn't bothered to read :?:

It's just typical of the whole A2 scenario. Veritas make A2 so why not put a 32 or 33 on the scale in the first place.

Answer because it was not originally intended and commercially inconvenient

I'm not knocking Veritas, they make beautiful planes and the workmanship on mine is outstanding but we have been had :evil:

 

[Vann]

Well that's at least two ways to skin a cat

I take it those measurements are in the small print I havn't bothered to read :?:

Yes, I found a table somewhere, - on the Lee Valley website I think. You can set stanard angles from 15.0° to 42.4° in various increaments; high angles from 19.0° to 56.3°; and you can even use the back bevel settings (with blade the correct way up) to achieve angles between 11.5° and 20.2°. Unfortunately there are a lot of gaps between the steps, that just happen to miss all the sizes you want ](*,)

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Alf]

Heh, don't get me started on the honing guide. They keep making tools with titchy little blades that it can't cope with at all. :lol:

It's just typical of the whole A2 scenario. Veritas make A2 so why not put a 32 or 33 on the scale in the first place.

Answer because it was not originally intended and commercially inconvenient

Possibly it was practically impossible. There's only so many settings you could include without it getting cluttered even if it was possible to manufacture at all, and the off-set roller near as dammit gets you there anyway. And Mr Charlesworth would be amazed how many people don't worry about a degree here or there. :wink:

As to whether we've been had, it's interesting that LV have never gone down the arguably snake-oiled path of cryogenic treatment of A2. Others have - and others set the clamour for A2 going in the first place. LV responded to demand; it is a business after all. And in the interests of full disclosure, yes, I am currently sitting here in a Lee Valley sweatshirt.* It's the warmest one I have and it's perishing freezing in here! :lol:

Cheers, Alf

*Yes, I bought it, thanks for wondering. Needed something in the order to conceal all the O1 irons. :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

Heh, don't get me started on the honing guide. They keep making tools with titchy little blades that it can't cope with at all. :lol:

Case in point is the Veritas small scraper plane where the blade is half as big as a 'shave blade. Much as I like LV stuff, I think RL may have shot hiself through an appendage here...and possibly not for the first time :wink: - Rob

 

[AHoman]

There is no doubt A2 offers a longer edge life at higher EP angles but for sharpness and lower angle work the traditional steels are better which is presumably why LN now offer them as an alternative. What a climbdown!

I just noticed on the LN website that they are (finally!) offering their bevel-edged chisels in O1! Three cheers!
-Andy

 

[Alf]

Sheesh, I only looked yesterday or the day before in a vague hope. About time. D'you think they'd take my A2s in part-exchange...? :-k

 

[Aled Dafis]

One of the reasons I've managed to stay away from LN (apart from my 60 1/2 and a brief encounter with the 102) was their A2 irons. I even sold my LN chisels because of the steel, now they make them in O1.:?

Looks like 2010 could get expensive :shock: :wink: :shock:

Cheers

Aled

 

[David C]

Larry,

If you could tell us any more about what to look for in a wire edge, it would be much appreciated.

Alf,

I don't worry about the odd degree or two, but thousandth's of an inch are a serious matter!

David