Joiners, am i being ripped off?

[europa]

Having a loft conversion done to a typical 3-bed semi in London suburbs, and builders have included a standard (pine/ply) staircase. I asked them to give me the cost for upgrading to oak treads, oak handrails and oak newels (all stained and varnished to match laminate floor). Risers will remain ply and spindles/stringers will remain pine (as per their standard). Staircase has 12 steps, 2 turns and treads are 700 wide (so quite small!). They have quoted 2k+vat.

I know oak is expensive, but this really seems far too much to me given that it should only be for the difference in price between standard pine and oak for only the treads, handrails and newels.

 

[otter]

They can't be arsed and don't want to do it.

 

[otter]

Pineappled? Heh

 

[europa]

To clarify, the full spec is this:
- risers ply, painted white
- stringers pine, painted white
- treads oak, stained to match flooring and clear varnished
- spindles pine, square section (but not warped!), painted white
- hand rails oak, stained and varnished to match treads
- newel posts oak, stained and varnished to match treads

They told me a standard loft staircase costs about 1.6k; so, if my upgrade is 2k, that means the above spec costs around 3.6k+vat for one loft staircase. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[lurker]

We are not allowed to swear on the forum so use alternatives; pineapple is a naughty word beginning with "F"

What Otter is saying is they are quoting you a high price because they dont want to do it in oak and are trying to discourage you.
Common technique for avoiding work they dont want to do.
all tradesmen hate customers who want to alter specs after the job has started, were I come from the "price loading"
is known at "TWT tax" (that needs an A adding to make sense).

 

[europa]

We are not allowed to swear on the forum so use alternatives; pineapple is a naughty word beginning with "F"

What Otter is saying is they are quoting you a high price because they dont want to do it in oak and are trying to discourage you.
Common technique for avoiding work they dont want to do.
all tradesmen hate customers who want to alter specs after the job has started, were I come from the "price loading"
is known at "TWT tax" (that needs an A adding to make sense).

Haha, thanks! Thing is, theyve had this spec since the start so its not really a change. And, strangely enough, a joiner on another forum told me they thought the 2k extra sounded reasonable! The reason why i'm so sceptical is that i really struggle to believe 12 threads, with handrails and newels, should cost 2k extra!

 

[custard]

I'm a furniture maker not a joiner but it sounds reasonable to me.

Besides the timber there's also the additional cost of finishing to take into account, those words "stained and varnished to match laminate floor" are a killer. It'll never truly match, but you can sink hours and hours into a job trying to achieve a slightly closer match and you open yourself up to endless disputes with the customer.

In reality they've probably quoted keen to get the job, and now there's a chance to make a small but reasonable profit from an upgrade. If you don't like the quote then just stick with pine.

 

[europa]

I'm a furniture maker not a joiner but it sounds reasonable to me.

Besides the timber there's also the additional cost of finishing to take into account, those words "stained and varnished to match laminate floor" are a killer. It'll never truly match, but you can sink hours and hours into a job trying to achieve a slightly closer match and you open yourself up to endless disputes with the customer.

In reality they've probably quoted keen to get the job, and now there's a chance to make a small but reasonable profit from an upgrade. If you don't like the quote then just stick with pine.

Thanks, very helpful. I didnt realise it was so difficult to stain to match. Anyway, given my flooring is laminate, i think it's better to simply get a pine staircase and clad it with the same laminate. Then it will definitely match!

 

[tomatwark]

The first quote they gave you may be an off the shelf set of stairs and when you have asked them to up grade they may have to get it made to order.

I would think trying to clad a stair case in laminate flooring would be very difficult and my end up costing more in time than paying up for the Oak treads, it may also make your stairs not conform to building regs as well, which will need to be signed off at the end of the build.

 

[lurker]

I agree thats a seriously bad idea.

Laminate on the treads would wear out in a few months besides all the other downsides

 

[Rob Platt]

The difference between buying an off the peg type staircase to be painted is a world apart from a stained to match and varnished oak handbuilt if its done properly. The paint and putty wont be hiding any damage and protecting it during building progress will be required etc etc.. Try getting a quote for an all oak staircase and see how the price goes mixing and matching may well be adding to the problem.
Laminate on a staircase is an accident waiting to happen
all the best
rob

 

[skipdiver]

I have cladded the treads and risers of a pine staircase with oak. There are kits available to do it. There are also trims to allow you to do it with laminate but i wouldn't bother with that. Too slippery and will wear out quickly as someone else pointed out.

 

[otter]

We are not allowed to swear on the forum so use alternatives; pineapple is a naughty word beginning with "F"

Or in this case, a much more minor word, beginning with "A"

 

[rafezetter]

I have cladded the treads and risers of a pine staircase with oak. There are kits available to do it. There are also trims to allow you to do it with laminate but i wouldn't bother with that. Too slippery and will wear out quickly as someone else pointed out.

I would agree doing this is probably your best and cheaper option (but it'll still be many hundreds), the pine provides a solid base to work from and in the worst case a tread gets damaged too badly from moving furniture etc, the cover can be removed and replaced.

I have to agree about colormatching stain though, it'll never be perfect and because there's no such thing as an off the peg matching stain (the same name colours don't even agree between manufacturers) it could well take a lot more hours and money than you may realise just for sampling unless they are skilled at such things, which I suspect they are not, because not many people outside of furniture renovation cabinet makers, are.

And then there's the time required of application, staining also requires more finesse to get an even tone so it's not blotchy even with easier to stain woods like oak, another skill not usually aquired by a jobbing builder.

 

[ColeyS1]

The stairs are a different item to the floor. I think they are better a different colour.
A perfect solution would be solid floor and solid stairs to match. Anything else is just trying to be something it's not imho.

Coley

 

[deema]

The two turns you refer to could be interpreted as either landings or winders. Depending on which will determine how much oak is required. However, to produce this stairway will need good quality timber, selected to be sure it's virtually free from knots etc. The timber alone could easily be over £1000 (I'm paying c p£75 cuft + VAT). I would spray paint the risers, spindles and stringers white before assembly, which would make the task easier for finishing.

The big problem will be getting a consistent colour finish on the oak that you will be happy with. If the laminate floor is 'printed' rather than real wood, the consistency will be very hard to reproduce.

Making a stairway needs a joiners shop, and takes both skill and room. Without seeing the design the proposed extra cost could well be very reasonable.

 

[Adam9453]

I have to say I agree with what the others have said.
I expect they are just buying the staircase in.
A pine staircase is probably effectively off the shelf whereas the oak and painted staircase you're describing sounds anything but.
I'm not surprised the builder has lumped on a load extra for trying to meet your spec.
As others have said, to me it seems odd to match a lovely oak staircase to the laminate flooring. I'd leave the oak as oak and then put down an engineered oak floor when funds permit. Would look much better IMO.

I considered cladding our staircase using one of those walnut kits but even with fitting it all myself the cost was unattractive. Once I had the quote to carpet the stairs instead, it was a no brainer for us. Carpet is also safer on stairs IMO.

 

[owsnap]

I will be in process of building 1:1 of what you have described, have already made the steps and the carcass of everything and have spent around £280 for everything now in materials (Oak & ply for the carcass & painted pine spindles I will buy already-made , will be a bit over £350 when stained/finished.
that is for in-built staircase not a standalone full-blown stairs.

 

[lurker]

I will be in process of building 1:1 of what you have described, have already made the steps and the carcass of everything and have spent around £280 for everything now in materials (Oak & ply for the carcass & painted pine spindles I will buy already-made , will be a bit over £350 when stained/finished.
that is for in-built staircase not a standalone full-blown stairs.

Does that meet building regs and will the inspector get a chance to sign them off?

 

[deema]

I don't believe we can compare the price of timber in Finland with what we can buy in the UK. Having spent some time in Finland it's both a beautiful place, with lovely people and with more trees than you can shake a stick at. This is the country where they use fabulous wood (UK standards) as shoring for casting concrete motorways with and then burn it. The price of lumber is significantly lower than that of the U.K.