If the Japanese can do this with a lump of Oak with a slot in it:
https://youtu.be/kFLt0duNrgc
Why would you even think about a Lie Nielson?! :lol:
https://youtu.be/kFLt0duNrgc
Why would you even think about a Lie Nielson?! :lol:
Japanese plane
- Thread starter woodpig
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
I suspect it's about true to life as a Volkswagen Emission test.
That bit of wood is not just a lump off a wood pile
I bet we don't see the 100s of outakes and resharpens that happened for that 120 secs of film
I reckon I could do the same with my manky old Stanley 8) :lol:
That bit of wood is not just a lump off a wood pile
I bet we don't see the 100s of outakes and resharpens that happened for that 120 secs of film
I reckon I could do the same with my manky old Stanley 8) :lol:
BHolcombe
Established Member
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
I do not build furniture out of straight-grained yellow cedar. These planing exhibitions are not representative of the work we do in a workshop. Nevertheless, there is skill in sharpening a blade, setting up the plane, and using it. In this particular case, the shavings have fine striations, which suggests that either he has had a goodly number of outtakes for the video and the blade is a little worn, or the blade was not sharpened as well as Brian can. 
.
Regards from a Perth
Derek
.Regards from a Perth
Derek
BHolcombe
Established Member
Haha thanks Derek! No chance of 8 micron shavings in most hardwoods...,,err most woods.
Yellow cedar is a timber framer or shoji maker's wood, so there is practical purpose for the insanity, once it is backed off a few notches.
Yellow cedar is a timber framer or shoji maker's wood, so there is practical purpose for the insanity, once it is backed off a few notches.
David C
In Memorium
Well Brian, I will have to query that.
I reckon I can get close to half a thou" 0.0005 in English Sycamore or Maple.
I thou" 0.001 is about 25 microns if I have done my sums right.
So this would be close to 12 microns.
This is with my tuned up Stanley 5 1/2 with Hock blade & L-N new C/B.
Happy new year,
David
I reckon I can get close to half a thou" 0.0005 in English Sycamore or Maple.
I thou" 0.001 is about 25 microns if I have done my sums right.
So this would be close to 12 microns.
This is with my tuned up Stanley 5 1/2 with Hock blade & L-N new C/B.
Happy new year,
David
bugbear
Established Member
It's not just the thickness of the shavings that''s remarkable;
They're uniform, full width, and sustained over long distances.
Still unrepresentative of day to day woodworking, just like Olympic archery is unrepresentative of war or hunting.
It's a thing in its own right.
BugBear
They're uniform, full width, and sustained over long distances.
Still unrepresentative of day to day woodworking, just like Olympic archery is unrepresentative of war or hunting.
It's a thing in its own right.
BugBear
David C
In Memorium
Yes, a remarkable feat, I am not suggesting that I could do all that!!
David
David
custard
Established Member
There's loads of these planing videos, but generally speaking they're unrepresentative of the real challenges you face in cabinet making. Consequently I regard them as, at best, a distraction; and at worst as misinformation that can confuse a newcomer to the craft.
The common failing are,
-Implying that a thin shaving is the gold standard. There are times when you want a thin shaving, but most times you want something thicker in order to get the job done. I'm far more impressed by a tear out free thicker shaving than by a gossamer thin shaving, which is why I believe DW's campaign on behalf of closely set cap irons was such a valuable contribution to practical woodworking knowledge.
-Most of these videos, including the one linked, show a shaving that extends across the full width of the board, i.e. they're mainly edge shavings. But edge shavings are a fairly specialised category of planing, in my work that's generally about edge jointing boards to form a top, when I do this it's all about the camber of the iron, I'm not really concerned with the thinness of the shaving. If someone is trying to illustrate a finishing shaving then it would make far more sense to use a much wider board and clearly illustrate how it fades out to nothing at the edges (to minimise ridges) while still being both thin and wide. That would demonstrate far more skill in plane preparation than an edge shaving from a 25mm or 30mm wide board.
-As Derek pointed out, the timber choice is often unrepresentative of the main furniture making timbers. In these videos they're usually either timbers that are far too benign, or alternatively they're dubbed "the unplaneable board from hell" when in fact they're anything but! Often the poster has limited woodworking experience and has drawn their "unplaneable" board from their very limited timber stocks, so what?
The common failing are,
-Implying that a thin shaving is the gold standard. There are times when you want a thin shaving, but most times you want something thicker in order to get the job done. I'm far more impressed by a tear out free thicker shaving than by a gossamer thin shaving, which is why I believe DW's campaign on behalf of closely set cap irons was such a valuable contribution to practical woodworking knowledge.
-Most of these videos, including the one linked, show a shaving that extends across the full width of the board, i.e. they're mainly edge shavings. But edge shavings are a fairly specialised category of planing, in my work that's generally about edge jointing boards to form a top, when I do this it's all about the camber of the iron, I'm not really concerned with the thinness of the shaving. If someone is trying to illustrate a finishing shaving then it would make far more sense to use a much wider board and clearly illustrate how it fades out to nothing at the edges (to minimise ridges) while still being both thin and wide. That would demonstrate far more skill in plane preparation than an edge shaving from a 25mm or 30mm wide board.
-As Derek pointed out, the timber choice is often unrepresentative of the main furniture making timbers. In these videos they're usually either timbers that are far too benign, or alternatively they're dubbed "the unplaneable board from hell" when in fact they're anything but! Often the poster has limited woodworking experience and has drawn their "unplaneable" board from their very limited timber stocks, so what?
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Implying that a thin shaving is the gold standard. There are times when you want a thin shaving, but most times you want something thicker in order to get the job done. I'm far more impressed by a tear out free thicker shaving than by a gossamer thin shaving, which is why I believe DW's campaign on behalf of closely set cap irons was such a valuable contribution to practical woodworking knowledge
Well said, Custard.
Up until the re-emergence of the chipbreaker, I relied on high cutting angles. These planes (both BU and BD) really only work when taking thin shavings as the resistance is high. The closed up chipbreaker changed that, and offered a wider range in planing options.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Well said, Custard.
Up until the re-emergence of the chipbreaker, I relied on high cutting angles. These planes (both BU and BD) really only work when taking thin shavings as the resistance is high. The closed up chipbreaker changed that, and offered a wider range in planing options.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Perhaps we can assume though that the Japanese have happily been using this type of plane on all kinds of timber for a very long time. So the question still remains and it begs another. Would a modern day Japanese carpenter buy a western plane.
BHolcombe
Established Member
8 microns, which I cut, is a fairly heavy shaving by comparison to current record, which is 2 microns. That shaving is 2" wide and 8' long unbroken and un-split.
Assuming all sort of implications is where you go wrong. It's a fun event, everyone who participates realizes that it is just that. The one that I attended was mostly professional woodworkers and each of them know that this is not an everyday woodworking/furniture making or even carpentry requirement. No one is going around saying you need to do this in order to do your everyday work.
The important thing, you learn in the process of doing; you learn a lot about what works and what doesn't work WRT sharpening and plane sole setup and when you return to normal, everyday work, you find it much easier by comparison.
What most do not realize in passing is that the beam is as tuned as the plane. I spent a few moments planing the beam to .001" flatness over 8' length, checking with a straight edge and feeler gauge....something I would not do in regular woodworking. One also typically uses VG lumber.
Assuming all sort of implications is where you go wrong. It's a fun event, everyone who participates realizes that it is just that. The one that I attended was mostly professional woodworkers and each of them know that this is not an everyday woodworking/furniture making or even carpentry requirement. No one is going around saying you need to do this in order to do your everyday work.
The important thing, you learn in the process of doing; you learn a lot about what works and what doesn't work WRT sharpening and plane sole setup and when you return to normal, everyday work, you find it much easier by comparison.
What most do not realize in passing is that the beam is as tuned as the plane. I spent a few moments planing the beam to .001" flatness over 8' length, checking with a straight edge and feeler gauge....something I would not do in regular woodworking. One also typically uses VG lumber.
BHolcombe
Established Member
Oh look-y here, you can make a thing from yellow cedar;
