I was given this antique tool about 20 years ago. The dimensions are very close to 1.5", 1" and 0.5" and the profile of the end is the same in both faces. I have always assumed it was a handy reference for those dimensions as well as being a gauge for scribing mouldings but it would be nice to know if that is correct and if anyone can add more information? Thanks.
Is this a scribing gauge?
- Thread starter Muswell
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bugbear
Established Member
I think it's something to do with sash window making.
Hopefully people knowledgeable in that area will be along to confirm/deny.
BugBear
Hopefully people knowledgeable in that area will be along to confirm/deny.
BugBear
bugbear
Established Member
This is a good article;
http://hackneytools.com/2013/08/how-to- ... -templets/
which appears to show that sash templates are made similarly, but are not the same
design as the item in question.
So I'm reduced to saying it's to "some kind of template"
BugBear
http://hackneytools.com/2013/08/how-to- ... -templets/
which appears to show that sash templates are made similarly, but are not the same
design as the item in question.
So I'm reduced to saying it's to "some kind of template"
BugBear
It's definitely for sash work but I think it's true to say that there isn't a clear description of how templates were used that was written by a tradesman user, at the time when they were in use.
So what we have is by deduction from the templates themselves.
As Richard is interested historically but also understands old tools as a hands on user, I would set more store by his suggestions.
It may be stating the obvious, but in a sash window which is divided by glazing bars, the joints where the bars meet the stiles and rails are not the same as where two bars intersect.
Also, there are different ways of working the joints between the bars. So it's no surprise that there were several patterns of templates.
So what we have is by deduction from the templates themselves.
As Richard is interested historically but also understands old tools as a hands on user, I would set more store by his suggestions.
It may be stating the obvious, but in a sash window which is divided by glazing bars, the joints where the bars meet the stiles and rails are not the same as where two bars intersect.
Also, there are different ways of working the joints between the bars. So it's no surprise that there were several patterns of templates.
richarnold
Established Member
Hi Muswell.
This is a scribing template for the construction of sash bar. If this link works it should help to explain the process. As Andy says we have no writen record as to how these were actualy used, but this is proberbly as close as we are going to get. My own gut feeling is that they may have not been in common use as it is possible to cope a bar without one just by using a gouge manualy. nearly all the sash templates I have seen are in exelent condition, and seem to have very little wear. I think both the templates, and sash scribing gouges possibly became obsolete once the coping saw came into common use. I would guess this would be around 1900.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BBfxke9E7B4 ... ld_richard
This is a scribing template for the construction of sash bar. If this link works it should help to explain the process. As Andy says we have no writen record as to how these were actualy used, but this is proberbly as close as we are going to get. My own gut feeling is that they may have not been in common use as it is possible to cope a bar without one just by using a gouge manualy. nearly all the sash templates I have seen are in exelent condition, and seem to have very little wear. I think both the templates, and sash scribing gouges possibly became obsolete once the coping saw came into common use. I would guess this would be around 1900.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BBfxke9E7B4 ... ld_richard
Another article from Hackney Tools showing the 'set' I imagine. Apparently, you have one half of the pair shown in the link below (Fig. 27)
http://www.hackneytools.com/wp-content/ ... ersion.pdf
http://www.hackneytools.com/wp-content/ ... ersion.pdf
I have been trying to work out how the piece you have could be used.
As described in the Hackney Tools article link I posted - I believe it refers to the template/scribing jig you have as being associated with the Stiles and Rails of sashes. What is puzzling me is that in both instances (stiles and rails) you have only a mortise in which to fit the glazing bar. There is no scribing necessary here surely? All the scribing is completed on the glazing bars to ride over the mouldings on Stiles and Rails. Correct me please if I am wrong
If I am correct, I have a sneaky suspicion that what you have is a jig which allows for the scribing of the rebated side of the glazing bar (opposite side to the moulded side) to be scribed back half the width of the glazing bar external profile. That would also run concurrent with the fact that it appears in good condition - it does not come into contact with sharp tools apart from at the brass ends, where it is essentially used as a gauge; it is both left and right handed as would be required. I can only surmise it would be used for the short horizontal glazing bars pieces (where the verticals generally run full length top rail to bottom rail, its use is not necessary). Anyone else have any comments or suggestions? A very interesting puzzle. :?
Another thought springs to mind inasmuch that sash mouldings differed. Both Ovolo and Lambs Tongue, others maybe, were used according to region. I believe yours is perhaps 'Lambs Tongue'. Were there scribing tools to suit other profiles?
Out in my shop I have the metal version, made by Marples, of the wooden g/bars and mouldings scribing tool shown in a earlier post. Not sure when I bought it but must have been many years ago.
Regards,
J
As described in the Hackney Tools article link I posted - I believe it refers to the template/scribing jig you have as being associated with the Stiles and Rails of sashes. What is puzzling me is that in both instances (stiles and rails) you have only a mortise in which to fit the glazing bar. There is no scribing necessary here surely? All the scribing is completed on the glazing bars to ride over the mouldings on Stiles and Rails. Correct me please if I am wrong
If I am correct, I have a sneaky suspicion that what you have is a jig which allows for the scribing of the rebated side of the glazing bar (opposite side to the moulded side) to be scribed back half the width of the glazing bar external profile. That would also run concurrent with the fact that it appears in good condition - it does not come into contact with sharp tools apart from at the brass ends, where it is essentially used as a gauge; it is both left and right handed as would be required. I can only surmise it would be used for the short horizontal glazing bars pieces (where the verticals generally run full length top rail to bottom rail, its use is not necessary). Anyone else have any comments or suggestions? A very interesting puzzle. :?
Another thought springs to mind inasmuch that sash mouldings differed. Both Ovolo and Lambs Tongue, others maybe, were used according to region. I believe yours is perhaps 'Lambs Tongue'. Were there scribing tools to suit other profiles?
Out in my shop I have the metal version, made by Marples, of the wooden g/bars and mouldings scribing tool shown in a earlier post. Not sure when I bought it but must have been many years ago.
Regards,
J
In my ignorance of this subject I thought you would place the tool on the moulded profile of the glazing bar and then scribe the joint using the identical profile on the end of the tool. Am I missing something?
richarnold
Established Member
https://www.instagram.com/p/BBfxke9E7B4 ... ld_richard
the above vidio shows the scribing of the glazing bar. this template is double sided, and could not be used on the top and bottom rails of the sash. this is what your template is used for.
Cheers, Richard
the above vidio shows the scribing of the glazing bar. this template is double sided, and could not be used on the top and bottom rails of the sash. this is what your template is used for.
Cheers, Richard
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