Introducing myself and radial arm saw advice needed

[bosshogg]

Hello everyone,

As a newbie to the forum I hope I can both advise and be advised as my knowledge allows. I am both a time served Patternmaker and Joiner to trade (Patternmaker (1960's) first...Joiner through need) I am currently working on a workshop for myself where I can potter away to my hearts content. This involves knocking together two garden sheds in to one small but functional workshop. I have already got a bench which I made about 15 or twenty years ago. when I was still on the tools, an old 50mm door blank set on a purpose built mortice and tenon softwood frame...all cut by hand...oh I almost forgot - I come from East coast of Scotland and as a Scotsman display signs of thrift...or so my wife and daughters would tell you, me I just think everything can be fixed.
I am looking for some advice, at this time, on a DeWalt DW 1210 radial arm saw yoke assembly if anyone knows about these things...thank's in anticipation.

bosshogg

 

[kirkpoore1]

Welcome aboard, Boss. I am not familiar with a Dewalt 1210, but since I understand it is an older model, it may be similar to my model 1200, from 1963. I don't know whether it's close enough, but you can find a manual for the 1200 here and see whether it will help:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=188

If this doesn't help, do yo have a specific question? Pictures will likely help too.

Kirk

 

[NetBlindPaul]

boss,
Welcome.
What is the issue with the saw yoke on the DeWalt?

 

[acewoodturner]

Welcome Bosshogg

Where abouts are you on the East Coast are you. Im in Glenrothes and if you are close enough maybe able to help you. The best manual you can get is the one by Mr Sawdust, available from the website of same name.
Miles Power Tools and Machinery have a good breakdown of parts for several dw RAS's and that may be sufficient.
If you are close PM me and we might be able to work something out.

Mike

 

[bosshogg]

Hi Guys,

Kirk...sorry wrong Model no. stated (typo I think it's called) should have been DW1201 the portable Powerhouse model (ha ha, not at that weight) it's not very portable to me anyway.

Mike...I live in Montrose these days, used to live in Glenrothes (Macedonia) back in the 70's-80's.

Kirk/Paul/Mike...The attachments show both the model and a sketch I've adapted of the yoke area in question. My problem stems from the trunion block when fitted through the yoke, as you can see the block is fitted through the yoke arm and is precisely machined to fit, but when pushed home it protrudes through the yoke arm about 3mm (both faces are machined presupposing that both will mate on the motor casing wall) so the 3mm protrusion, which incidentally is approximately the spreader stick oversize (measurement between yoke arms + 3mm) but I can't see how this can be achieved. I have fitted a perspex washer a couple of thou's bigger than the 3mm difference allowing the motor to be tilted without metal to metal gouging but this still means the yoke arms are forced beyond there designed tolerance I would think. as the block dimensions from the shoulder (that bears in the arm housing) too the outer machined face of "do" I can't see how I can move the block in this direction by shimming it because this would foul on the degree scale plate, which is screwed on the outer arm face with a couple of small machine screws...thanks all

bosshogg

 

[NetBlindPaul]

Bosshog,
Can you please post some more diagrams of the area in question so I can see the full mechanism to put my mind to the full function and the designers possible ideas?
Thanks

 

[kirkpoore1]

[*&^%!!--Lost my first reply. Now where was I?]

OK, I found a parts diagram here: http://www.mtmc.co.uk/Product.aspx?ProductID=18840&strParent=search&PPGR=0

From what you're saying, when the trunnion block is fully inserted there isn't enough room for the motor without spreading the yolk arms. Does the motor have any overlapping areas for the trunnion block to socket into? Did you happen to take pictures before you took it apart, or can you post some pictures of the motor & yolk as they are now?

Kirk

 

[kirkpoore1]

Boss:

Here's the motor diagram from the same source:

It looks like the two mounting brackets marked 43 in the earlier diagram are marked 21 in this one, and go between the cooling fins on the motor. Maybe that will be enough to give you the 3mm you need. Have you actually tried to fit the motor back in place?

Kirk

 

[NetBlindPaul]

kirkpoore1,
These are good info, I'll have a look at these & see if I can advise the OP.
Thanks, I may be in touch for other old machine info!

 

[bosshogg]

Hi Kirk,

your observations are correct the two parts marked 43 have changed too 21 and they do fit inside the fins, one each side of the motor casing in specially machined T slots, which allows in and out setting of the motor, why I don't know. I have the motor fitted, correctly as far as I can see, indeed the saw is operational as we speak, it's just hard to bevel set the motor the way it is with the yoke pressing so hard against the sided when I un-spread the yoke. As you have the 1200 model how similar are the yoke/motor mounting arrangements to mine? and is bevelling your motor very stiff like mine?

Regards

bosshogg

 

[kirkpoore1]

Hi Kirk,

your observations are correct the two parts marked 43 have changed too 21 and they do fit inside the fins, one each side of the motor casing in specially machined T slots, which allows in and out setting of the motor, why I don't know. I have the motor fitted, correctly as far as I can see, indeed the saw is operational as we speak, it's just hard to bevel set the motor the way it is with the yoke pressing so hard against the sided when I un-spread the yoke. As you have the 1200 model how similar are the yoke/motor mounting arrangements to mine? and is bevelling your motor very stiff like mine?

Regards

bosshogg

No, they really aren't that similar. My 1200 is a much earlier saw, I'd say. For example, the split in the front of the yoke is at the bottom on your saw and on the right on my saw.

Is it possible to adjust the tilt lock assembly (26 in the yoke diagram) to make it looser? If nut 28 is too tight to start with, you may not be able to loosen it up enough for easy tilting. Or maybe the trunnion block can be greased. Some good pictures would really help about now--parts diagrams don't always match reality. You could also see whether the #35 bolt on the back of the yolk could be adjusted too, though that's somewhat unlikely.

One other thing: You said "they do fit inside the fins, one each side of the motor casing in specially machined T slots, which allows in and out setting of the motor, why I don't know." Is it possible the motor is a little cockeyed? Maybe it needs to be twisted in those T-slots, parallel to the slots (i.e. the part of the motor next to the front yolk section would move left, while the back would move to the right, as you look at it from the front of the saw).

Kirk
trying to grasp that straw from 4000 miles away...

 

[bosshogg]

Hi Guys,

Took some pics & stripped...cleaned...polished and greased the trunion block and housing.
These show the trunion block...hex bolts...orange locking lever...extent of trunion block space (spreader in position)...and no space without spreader in place. It should be noted that the space provided by the spreader is the same as the 3mm protrusion that the trunion block produces when fitted...hope all of this clear.

bosshogg

 

[bosshogg]

Kirk...sorry it's taken me so long to come back to you more directly, it's taken me a bit to figure out the formats this site operates with, it took a while to post the photos I have, at first having drawn on them in a vector program I use...phew! but all fine now.

To answer your question directly, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...with the trunion block fitted there's not enough room for the motor without spreading the yoke arms to accommodate. I only wish there were a set of instructions, figuring out the design principals of the these workings has me perplexed...but once discovered I bet it will be obvious???

bosshogg

 

[kirkpoore1]

Kirk...sorry it's taken me so long to come back to you more directly, it's taken me a bit to figure out the formats this site operates with, it took a while to post the photos I have, at first having drawn on them in a vector program I use...phew! but all fine now.

To answer your question directly, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...with the trunion block fitted there's not enough room for the motor without spreading the yoke arms to accommodate. I only wish there were a set of instructions, figuring out the design principals of the these workings has me perplexed...but once discovered I bet it will be obvious???

bosshogg

Well, it looks to be in good condition with no obvious breaks. Thus the first two usual suspects (corrosion and damage) can be at least temporarily set aside. Next up would be assembly error. When the motor is in the yoke, your spacer removed, and the three "35" bolts loose, and the handle assembly "26" and nut "28" also loose, how hard is the motor to tilt? If it tilts easily, tighten up the 35's and try again. If it's still easy, tighten up the 28 nut until the tilt is moveable but not easy. Then put on the 26 assembly and see if you can tighten 28 up so it won't tilt.

If that doesn't do it, we need to look for parts that are assembled backward or in the wrong order.

Let me know how it goes.

Kirk
Trans-Atlantic Radial Arm Saw Diagnosis & Repair, Inc.

 

[Benchwayze]

Afraid I can't assist with anything on the RAS. However, welcome aboard Boss and I hope you enjoy pottering around here as well as in your shop.
Regards
John

 

[bosshogg]

Plenty of help on hand on the RAS John, big thanks for the welcome, looking forward to imparting some of the knowledge my Patternmaking experiences have given me...bosshogg

"aim for the Moon, even if you miss at least you'l be amongst the stars"

 

[bosshogg]

Hi Guys,

Kirk...good advice, I'v already tried just lightly tightening the 2x "35" bolts on the trunion block, with the handle clamp off and the bolts loose it was certainly easier to tilt the blade, but the motor (when the handle clamp was reapplied) was easily pushed out of alignment, I could not try sawing wood this way as it could quite easily bound and kicked back. I tried progressively tighter ---pressure on the 2x "35" bolts but until they were tightened up hard the results were similarly bad.
...Now looking at the schematic again I understand the set up a little better I think...neither yoke arm housing faces in actual fact come into contact with the motor(my first wrong assumption) the proud 3mm of the trunion block is matched by similar 3mm proud space provided by the trunion button which fits in from the inside face (see schematic) therefore there is a total 6mm clearance between the yoke arm faces and the motor sides. Actually I never realised the importance of the rear/slave trunion button in the set up, this is a plastic button which grips the bolt screw (almost like a nylon lock nut prevents shaking loose) so just by mentioning the third "35" bolt you have prompted well - Oh wise transatlantic guru - now, I just might have some greater success...I'll try it and let you know...bosshogg

A wise man once said, you cannot help someone who doesn't tell you what he wants

 

[kirkpoore1]

I just might have some greater success...I'll try it and let you know...bosshogg

Bosshogg:

Sounds like you're making progress. No, don't run it if the bolts are loose--you're trying to find where things are too tight/jammed/stuck/misassembled, not trying to run it with the motor about to fall off. Keep at it--it's coming together.

Kirk

 

[jimi43]

Welcome Boss!

You have certainly whetted the appetite of our technical guys here!

As you can see...it is a really friendly and helpful place and I wish you luck with your saw

Jimi

 

[bosshogg]

Hi Guys,

Well thanks to my transatlantic guru...Mike...and others who have given me encouragement, I have resolved the problem I've experienced with the stiff motor tilting on the Dw1201 RAS. It now tilts without to much bother and is tight enough to avoid slackness in the motor, more importantly the saw blade witch must be rigid and true to function safely & properly...once again thank's guys I couldn't have done it without you. Perhaps I should post a chronological sequence of how the assembly should go, as there doesn't appear to be an instruction manual available for this model? what do ya think guys...bosshogg

old fishermen don't die, they just smell that way