Infill plane construction - shaping the infill

[dchenard]

My materials gathering is progressing on my Shepherd Spiers #7 kit. I have the dovetailed shell, and some rosewood to build the infill.

I need to make decisions on what iron to use (with or without a cap iron), whether to include an adjuster, and choosing between open and closed tote.

I am not attempting to make an exact copy of the original, if there are improvements that can be made to improve the performance of the final product, I'm all for it.

One thing that has me scratching my head is how to shape the tote if I am to use a closed one. Roughing out the shape is no problem, but how does one bring down the width of the tote section? All I can think of for now is to use a tailed router with a template. Is there another way to do this?

If anyone has suggestions, I'd like to hear them...

Thnx,

DC

 

[MikeW]

Hi Denis--if you are using a solid, one-piece chunk for the infill, I would draw the lines demarcating the four cuts--one on each side of the tote leaving it a little thick and the two at the base, leaving room for shaping--and either cut them with a handsaw or on the bandsaw.

All of the infills I had used a three piece section, with the tote proper being the middle of the sandwich. On both the Preston and the no-name Scottish infill, the three section were cut from a single block and looked as if it were a single piece.

You may wish to contact Konrad Sauer. Konrad would be glad to help, and if Ian sees this thread, I'm sure he will have some advice, but you may wish to contact him direct, too.

I have both email addresses if you want them.

Take care, Mike

 

[Ian Dalziel]

Denis,
Off hand i cant remember what a no 7 looks like but i think it might be overstuffed. ie wood sits over the sides.
If this is the case its best to cut the final size + 2mm then before you pein the shell...position it then scribe where you need to remove the waste.
If you have big hands then open tote is probobly more suitable....i would use an adjuster every time....i prefer a mechanical aid for advancing the blade but this can be tedious to fit providing you have one already.

By all means contact Konrad...he will be very helpful and he's a bit closer.

I use my mill as an overhead router...the front bun is secured in a machine vice...this allows me to work to finer tolerances and safer....as i am not keen on my fingers being so close to cutters on a router table.

when i like a front bun design i draw it out then once i like the design i make a router cutter to suit......pretty straight forward 01 toolsteel shaped off the drawing then hardened.....but if its a squarish bun then no real need to go this far...
rear handle/tote......bandsaw...powerfile then rasps then final sanding


Ian

 

[dchenard]

Thanks Ian, I was hoping to hear from you...

The #7 indeed looks like it's overstuffed, this is what Konrad's #7 looks like:

http://www.sauerandsteiner.com/no7.htm

I did send him an e-mail BTW, he's a good chap...

If I read you correctly, it's OK to use a tailed router to waste the wood on each side of the tote, and then finish shaping with rasps, files and scrapers, am I right?

Just out of curiosity, do you know how that wood was removed "in the old days"? No personal interest in reproducing historical methods, but I'm curious...

My hands are probably on the large side of medium, but I'm still concerned about the inherent weakness of an open tote... Comments?

My shell is already peined and filed (that's how I bought it).

Any suggestions about the choice of a blade? Thickness, cap iron or not, steel type, etc. If I'm to put that much energy in making the plane right, seems like I should get as good a blade as possible...

Thanks for the help,

DC

 

[Ian Dalziel]

Denis,
I havent done a no 7 or an overstuffed plane as yet so shaping the front bun i cant comment...David Charlesworth has done one.
I would overhead router it in a vice with some excess wood around it to protect from breakout. When doing buns etc always start at the endgrain and work around...this cleans off any breakout.
the rear of of my A13 is done as follows.......i use the the actual sides as a template...then rout using a bearing follower cutter...or i cnc it whatever mood i'm in.
the rear handle is drawn on paper then cut out...... then slowly sized to suit.
when fitting the rear side cheeks use a piece of scrap the same size as your rear handle and slowly blend the side pieces into the rear as its very difficult to do this with a handle in place.you need to have your frog plate cutouts done and the bed must be 2-3mm oversize.
once all bits are fitting glue them and clamp tight...once dry flatten them on a flat surface with some 60-400 grit sandpaper...progressivly. constantly checking with your frogplate and mouth. Also sit it bed down on the plate and check both sides are dead square.
its important to have all your timber square....if you dont then there is the possibility of gaps in the base

rear tote ...open design....stanley has been doing it for years.....just check you have picked the grain orientation is correct for strength.

I

 

[Ian Dalziel]

Denis,
Not sure how they did it in the past....they were very inventive way back then so i assume they had some kind of mechanical machinery to aid them.
Blades....i only use Holtey blades...i now surface grind off his logo though...his blades are fantastic.
you can use hock...or Ray iles...and i think a few others...most blades available for these planes are of a reasonable good thickness....its a flat back you want

lever caps....if you didnt get one from shepherd...first off try Konrad....if not i'll send one over but i dont have many left for this type of plane.

I

 

[David C]

Nice pics Ian!

Laminating the rear handle seems much the most straightforward route for a closed shape.

I abandoned the overstuffing at the rear because of splits in the Cocobolo supplied by Shepherd.

Their open handle sat in a large stopped groove in the underside of the rear stuffing. Glued with polyurethane and rivets passing thro.

I fitted a Holtey adjuster which required a little re positioning of the rear handle.

A thick A2cryo blade would be my choice, L-N or Holtey. Some prefer carbon steel, Konrad gets custom blades from Ron Hock.

The whole saga is written up in my third book which we are selling on my website.

www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk

The machining of infill requires careful planning. Trying to re machine Shepherd parts which did not fit the metalwork took some ingenuity as the original datum surfaces had been lost.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Denis

You may get some ideas from the progressive article I wrote when renovating a Spier infill. The major difference is that I did the stuffing after the metal was built. But I developed templates to do so, and these may interest you.

Somewhere in http://www.wkfinetools.com/tRestore/plane/inFillSmoother/index.asp

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

Nice pics Ian!

Seconded!

Is this really the IanD I was giving photographic tips to!!!??

BugBear (impressed)

 

[dchenard]

Thanks all for your advice, much appreciated...

I did get in touch with Konrad (BTW Ian, he's closer physically, but driving to his place probably takes as much time as flying to Scotland, if we only count the flight itself ). His advice is pretty much in line with what was given here. One thing that he got me hooked on is choosing CPM3V as the choice steel for the iron, he likes it a lot. I'm looking for sources, I have a few leads, any suggestion would be appreciated.

Thanks again for the help,

DC

 

[David C]

You will find sources quickly on www.woodcentral.com where there has been much talk and experimentation on these matters.

Is it dennis? david? or some other form of D

best wishes,
David

 

[dchenard]

You will find sources quickly on www.woodcentral.com where there has been much talk and experimentation on these matters.

Is it dennis? david? or some other form of D

best wishes,
David

Thanks David (my No. 2 has your name, BTW),

I follow WC regularly, I'm the one who started the recent "war" about sharpening Japanese chisels... :wink:

My leads at WC have produced no results, but gave me other leads to pursue. Ends up that I might be able to find CPM3V locally, an inquiry to the company has been sent this afternoon.

Thanks,

Denis (French version of Dennis, and patron saint of Paris)

 

[David C]

Denis,

Steve Elliot has been testing those blades, wonder where he gets his?

http://cablespeed.com/~sgelliott/blade_ ... index.html

David

 

[dchenard]

Denis,

Steve Elliot has been testing those blades, wonder where he gets his?

http://cablespeed.com/~sgelliott/blade_ ... index.html

David

He gets his steel at http://www.crucible.com/

Excellent site, very educational...

And they have a UK presence (in Sheffield, where else? )

Denis

 

[Steve Elliott]

The CPM 3V blades I've been testing are ones I made myself. It doesn't take much more than a drill press, a hacksaw, files and lots of patience to prepare the blade blank, but the heat treatment I have done professionally.

The best heat treatment schedule for plane blades is different from the general-purpose recommendation made by Crucible. For blades the best performance comes when the blade hardness is Rc61, which is as hard as the 3V can be made.

I'll be glad to share details of the times and temperatures used for hardening and tempering if anyone is interested.

One added note: the permanent location of my website is at infillplane.com.

 

[MikeW]

Welcome to the forum, Steve!

Nice to see you here.

Take care, Mike

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Steve

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil

 

[David C]

Steve,

Apologies for wrong link and spelling your name wrong.......

David Charlesworth