Infill Casting Project

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HarryJ

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I recently purchased an infill casting from Mr P and now that I have finished all that I was doing before hand, I can finally start working on it and also, as promised, document the progress here.

As soon as I received the package in the post, I traced around the outside of the casting and marked out the position of the mouth so that I could make rough sketches of the shape of the infill and have a look at what could become the final form of the plane.
It also reassured the advice given from Mr P that an un-handled infill of this size wouldn't look quite right.

Unfortunately, after tracing around the casting and making drawings, I had to get back to my work and so left the casting until now.

Now, before anything else, I must apologise for the quality of the photos I upload in this thread, its really difficult to photograph my work in my shop due to the lack of light, both natural and artificial, and using my phone camera is not easy to say the least...

I have begun to start with the casting, so first things first, I needed to clean off any oil which is on the casting so it doesn't bleed through and ruin the finish when I eventually get there. (<--Read this as 'between receiving the package and now, it has stained some wood so now I know' :oops: )

I then found some timber which is thick enough to work as the infill (possibly as a guinea pig test so I can see where my errors are going to be).
I'm not sure entirely sure what the timber is, I think its either Mahogany or Sapele, but what I do know is that it is quite old and at times, can be tricky to plane?!
So using my fore plane, I started planing the datum edge and face so I could then rip down the lump rather than planing off all of the waste. (As I had just replaced blade in my bandsaw, I didn't really want to change it again because the lower guides are a bit of a pig to set due to the limited space, so I settled with the blade which was on there at the time -it did a reasonable job.)

Planing.jpg

Ripping.jpg

After ripping the lump down, I did some more planing to remove the bandsaw marks, but left the block too thick so that I could creep up to the final thickness later.
Wider than casting.jpg



Using the drawing I decided I liked the most, I stuck it onto the timber to cut around on my bandsaw and drill out the handle with my drill press.
Templates stuck on II.jpg

Rear handle .jpg

Handle holes drilling III.jpg


As you can probably tell from the photos I have included, I wanted the handle to be made from one piece rather than the base infill and the handle as separate pieces, so to do this, I part cut the handle section vertically into 3 pieces.
handle vertical cuts.jpg


To remove the side waste of the handle, I sawed it off using my dovetail saw.
Sawing side waste off.jpg


Then in order to achieve the curve in the infill which backs onto where the blade will be, I used my drill press again to remove the majority of the waste. (Unfortunately, when checking the photos, this one was too fuzzy and so I can't show this part... :oops: )
Instead I'll show where I got to today and leave it at that for now.
Rough handle.jpg


I now need to find some in-cannel gouges to make shaping the blade support area easier for the next step.

Thanks,
Harry
 

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Great to see more infill projects coming online Harry and I have to say that this plane is worth all the effort.

Stained mahogany is a great choice of infill because it is relatively easy to work and gives that traditional result which can be "aged" to fit in with the age of the casting.

Watching this one with great interest!

Cheers mate

Jimi
 
Great start, can't wait to see this transformed over your summer holiday.
 
I'll be watching this with interest too, look like you've made a good start. Have you done something similar before?

James
 
Thank you Jimi, I now have more reassurance that it is a mahogany, although I might have to ask how you would give the aged look you mention?

Mr P, thanks for commenting and I must admit, I was waiting for your comment as soon as I posted the thread for some reason.

James, I haven't done anything like this before, I have only really done pieces of furniture and lathe turning and not really many of those either, but I've been looking at infill planes for a while and wanting to get hold of one to do myself.


I haven't got much done in the last two days infill wise as I have been working, but the half hour or so each day I have had working on it, I spent some of it finding and re grinding a gouge to shape the blade support section and the rest I spent sanding to give a better shape.

I also had to 're-vertical' the handle sides as they had become slightly out of vertical through some over zealous chopping... (hammer) (I tried to take a photo of this to better describe what I am trying to say, but my photography skills and funds are not up to much, so it turned out too dark to see)

To sand the concave curves of the handle, I used a small drum sander on my drill press to try and keep it perpendicular however as the rubber drums have to be compressed to grip the sandpaper ring, unfortunately it did not compress equally, leading to a non cylindrical drum shape and therefore a non perpendicular sanding shape.
On the brighter side, it still removed most of the waste quite quickly. :)
Drum Sanding III.jpg


After this, I spent most of the time slowly hand sanding the curve of the blade support to remove the marks from the drum sander, which is proving quite difficult due to the small radius and the paper buckling up.

Thanks,
Harry.
 

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Hi Harry

Regarding the perpendicular nature of the sanding drum...I suspect you might benefit from checking the drum relative to the base you are resting the handle on with a square. If it really is a problem with the drum shape then turn the handle upside down every few passes so that the error cancels out.

Regarding "aging"...there are some tips staining using your own dyes...in THIS PAGE OF MY BLOG

You only need four colours...dark brown, light brown, red and yellow and you can mix up any tint of old mahogany colour you like. If you need any more help just let me know.

Jimi
 
Hi Jimi,

I checked a drill bit relative to the drill press table which I have been using the drum sanders in and it was as accurately square as I could ever make it, so I think it must be the sanding drums. I'll get a picture tomorrow so I can better describe what is happening.

Thanks for the advice and link to your blog, I have read it before, but I must have forgotten about that particular part.


The Casting:
I've done a little more, but instead of showing pictures of sanding the rear handle (and also because I'm getting bored with sanding), I decided to start on the front handle, and after two re attempts, I think I have a good one which I will use.

Firstly, after re cutting the shape on the bandsaw, I marked the areas which need to be planed off so that the wood sits 'in' the casting rather that between it,
Marking depth lines.jpg


Then I roughly cut the pieces out...
Sawing to depth line.jpg

...ready to plane to the correct fit.
Planing to depth line.jpg


As one of the surfaces shown is rough sawn, to remove this, I used a rasp to waste away the material down to my drawn curve.
Rasping curve.jpg


In order to create the area which will be in contact with the users hand when planing, I initially drilled a hole through to get the base to sweep into the casting rather than being a straight line.
Hole drilled.jpg

And then following this, I carefully cut off the rest of the waste, leaving a relatively large waste line in case I messed up and scored the grip area.
As it happened, the cut I made was one of the neatest I have ever done so now I have all the waste to remove for no other reason that there is too much and the drilled hole doesn't match up -there are no mistakes, which I had so carefully planned for, so now there is a fair amount to remove without breaking out the end grain on the side...
Thumb position curve III.jpg


That's all I have done up until now,

Thanks,
Harry
 

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Firstly, thanks TT.

Not much to see again as I have been working, but to keep things moving I decided to dodid half an hour this morning.

I sanded the front bun through to 240 grit, (removing the excess I left previously took ages!) however I left the sanding at that so that if it was knocked before I had a chance to fit it, it wouldn't feel as if I was undoing all my careful sanding when I had to go back to coarser papers.

Sanded Front Bun re-sized.jpg


Now that the front bun had been sanded, I went back to the rear handle, and after some more sanding (the tricky bits are where the handle meets the lower infill section due to the requirement for the 90 Degrees but also as this curves up for the blade support) I started to fit the handle to the casting.
To do this, as before, I first marked out the castings thickness onto the infill using my marking gauge and then, using a dovetail saw (as I don't have a decent tenon saw) I cut the majority of the waste off.
So far, I have only cut the straight lines as I didn't have time to set to on the upwards curve section that needs to be removed so that the timber is set into the casting.

Castings and infills re-sized.JPG


Whilst working with the infill this morning, I think I have decided that the current infill pieces I have made really will be a test as I don't like the colour of the mahogany enough to keep it as the final one.
I think I'm going to find something else, although after a quick search on the internet, I can't find anywhere that sells thick enough pieces to work as the infill, so maybe the this won't be a test?! :?

That's all I have really got done since last time,
Thanks
Harry
 

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Your just have to joint some bits together. I've allways liked the ideas of 3 bits and the middle piece being a diffrent wood so you have a strip wound the centre, sycamore on the outsides and cherry in the middle :)

Great work so far, once this is turned into a usable plane it will be stunning

TT
 
Great progress!!!

I would sincerely urge you to finish the mahogany and stain it before you think of another wood. Yes it can be just a test piece and that's what I generally use if the work is important enough but it makes a fine looking infill once you have stained and polished it. I wouldn't discount it just yet.

I suppose I don't need to repeat it but you have chosen perhaps the most difficult of all projects to start with. Castings are a nightmare because they are always imperfect in dimension and just when you think you have everything lined up...the problems arise.

I overcome this by making it 1mm too big and forcing the infill down into the casting...overstuffed to overhang at least a couple of mm so that you can finish flush to the steel on the outside irrespective of what dimensional difficulties there are inside.

I really wish you the best on this one mate...whatever you decide for the infill...I'm sure by your skills so far you are going to have a tool to be really proud of!

=D> =D> =D>

Jimi
 
If you stick with plan A for a year or two and then decide to change the infills, the mark 2 shape will be born out of experience and not from what looks good on paper.

I've got a 70's orange MG , hated the colour at first but its grown on me over the years so another reason to live with it for a few years before doing anything drastic.

Keep up the great work.
 
Looking great Harry.
I think you'll be pleased with the mahogany once you've got a finish on it.
I'd wondered where to get some thick enough timber too. You've tempted me to have a go at replacing mine, I feel a trip to the wood shop coming on.blade
What's the plan for the lever cap and blade?

James
 
Toby, I did initially think about joining two types of timber together for the infill, but I don't think I thought about having three. This would however have allowed me to shape the two outside ones to exactly the same before gluing them together. ...but does that count as cheating?!... ;)
I will keep thinking about this though.

Any particular reason why sycamore and cherry? I have used them both before, the cherry much more then Sycamore

Thanks very much Toby,


Thanks Jimi,

I think I will finish the Mahogany infill, yours and others comments have persuaded me back to the mahogany.

Castings are very much a nightmare, and like you, I decided to have the infills overhang so that I can sand them back after they are fitted.

Thank you very much for your comment :D



Mr P,
I think that leaving the infill as it is and deciding if they need a change in a couple years is a good idea, because, as you say, the shape is then born from experience.

Thanks again,



James,

I couldn't find any companies online which advertised having thicker stock, I suppose the thing to do would be to go to the suppliers direct and have a look around, however, I haven't found anywhere nearby which has the facility to do so...

If you do decide to replace the infill on your plane (which I think you should as I like seeing other peoples work), please remember to take many photographs as I will definitely be watching any progress. :)

In regards to the lever cap, the casting appears to have wedge holding 'tabs', so there will be no lever cap I think?!
As for the Blade, I haven't yet decided whether to buy an old (or possibly new) blade, I have been casually looking but haven't found anything right yet.
I also thought about making one myself however as with the infill, I haven't ever made a blade myself, the most likely option is for me to buy one, I am quite interested in making one though.

I need to make my mind up soon as I need to adjust the infill to leave the mouth as tight as possible when the blade is fitted,
So...any thoughts anyone?



Thanks for all you're comments, they are all very much appreciated.
Harry
 
Haven't commented on this thread before but also following it with interest. I too have a bronze casting to start on at some stage, along with about a hundred other things to do, plus were moving house etc etc. Great work Harry I love your work!
Cheers
Mark
 
Harry, if you do go with the mahogany, you might like to consider using Potassium Permanganate to stain it. It's a long-established stain for mahogany and reacts chemically with the wood to give a rich reddish colour which you can darken by repeated application. I learned about it from some videos of traditional Irish cabinet makers as discussed here and used it for my step-chair as you can see here.

IMG_1522.jpg


(For the Hands of Cavan videos go here and watch the staining at 5 mins 38:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM3OT66iTOs&feature=relmfu)
 
Yes its the wedge type without a bridge or lever cap, similar idea to this one

Coffin%2001.JPG



I was toying with the idea of removing the metal that holds the wedge and going for a lever cap

003.JPG


Easy enough to remove but as Jimi will tell you making a brass lever cap is a pain in the a. Plus Jimi has the benefit of a decent milling machine. Never done it myself but its on my list for this year, how hard can it be ? gulp.

The biggest problem with that idea would be getting the holes in the right place in the sides, no margin for error whatsoever. Easiest option would be the wooden wedge that it was designed for.

Edit: It might not even be possible so check the angles very carefully before removing the wedge supports.

Flat%20bed%202.jpg


red dots represent holes for lever cap screws.



James,
Lots of folk selling thick bowl blanks on ebay. Kiln dried is your best bet and leave to acclimatise in your gaff for as long as possible before cutting.
 

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Oh, so not too busy then Mark! :lol:
Thanks for the nice comment though.

Andy, Thanks for the information about Potassium Permanganate to stain the Mahogany, I had only ever seen it in chemistry classrooms before, and only then as a dye to show up convection currents!
I'll see if I can get some to try out on a test piece though, as from the look of the step chair you made, it does give a nice colour. (Your step chair is amazing by the way)
Thanks for the various links as well :)

Thanks for reassuring me there Mr P, I was pretty sure that it was, but its nice to know for sure now
When I saw the wedge tabs, I too thought about removing them but soon decided against it as I think a wedge would suit the plane as much as anything. (From the looks of Jimi's thread, making a lever cap definitely isn't the easiest thing either).


Thanks again, and hopefully some more progress on the infills tonight
Harry
 
First off, I must apologise to anyone following this thread as I have not posted for a while...

The reason behind not posting is that I was hoping to not have to admit to my disastrous and stupid mistake until after it had been fixed and was hopefully reasonably hidden... :oops:

Before detailing the mistake, I will first write up what I have done to the infills during the short time I spent deciding what it was I could do to remedy said mistake.

As I was having trouble sanding the concave faces of the blade support area (partially because my drum sander was not cylindrical) I decided to make my own drum sander and mount in to my lathe, which worked quite well!

Drum sander.jpg

(in this image, the 'drum' doesn't look cylindrical, however this is an illusion, it definitely is as much a cylinder as I could make it!)

To ensure that the paper didn't fly off or just spin, I cut a shallow slot for it to slide into, and making sure to take into account the rotation direction, I wound on some sand paper with a little paper glue to help it stick.

Following this, I simply sanded the concave faces and as I used 240 grit on the drum sander (I probably should have stepped up from 80 grit but didn't want to at the time) the finishing by hand will hopefully be easier now as the rough surface which kept causing the paper to fold up is now gone.

After this, I marked out and cut the sections out which allow the infill to sit into the casting (I unfortunately only seem to have one photo of this and that photo is the completed task...

Infill to sit in casting.jpg


The only problem with the method I chose to do this is that I didn't check that the casting was exactly symmetrical, which, when the infill is fitted, leads to slight gaps between the infill and the casting.

After I had done this, my next move was going to be to fit the infill into the casting for easier surface sanding so that I didn't sand too much off the sides and have it sit behind the casting outer wall... This is where my major mistake comes in to play...

...I have broken the casting, the side has snapped off! :cry:
When this happened, I can't describe how annoyed with myself I was, I felt SO stupid! It is my first infill plane and good old me goes and breaks the thing in two! :x

Casting break .jpg


As can be seen, the break is only approximately 130mm long, but it is not a repair I want to attempt myself, as despite being able to weld steel, cast iron is a completely different kettle of fish.

Knowing that welding cast is difficult, I looked up some companies on the internet, however only two who replied to my emails giving a quote price for the job of £85+VAT (this is their minimum charge) or £200! :x So this is why the thread has become a little quiet recently as I don't really know where to go next...

Thanks,
Harry
 

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Oh Harry I'm so sorry, this was coming along so nicely as well.

My initial response is it's scrap and not worth spending more money fixing than you paid in the first place.

Unless a member could be persuaded to sort it for beer tokens ? Even then is it worth it ?

Edit: I've started a topic in metal working.


Do you fancy another one ?

three-little-castings-less-skilled-northern-version-t79592.html

Under the circumstances I'll do the larger one for £30 inc carriage (sorry def keeping the smaller two) , maybe you could transform it into one of these ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bristol-Desig ... 3f39814b22
 

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