Impression on Iyoroi chisels

[Scott]

Thanks for the info David

Cheers

 

[ivan]

I have some boxwood handled multi hollowed Iyoroi chisels bought about 10 years ago from Japan Woodworker, pleased with these. Recent Devon bought Iyoroi seem less well made, the wider paring type particularly so, with a poorer looking weld - some traces of oxide? in the join. They were supplied very convex along the length, one eventually flattened by grinding out virtually all of the hollow, the other paring chisels (why did I not think of it earlier) carefully tapped out till as flat as possible and then ground flat.

As inspiring to good work as they may be, the expensive 'chisels as art' variety presumably add little to the ability to cut and hold an edge, if compared with a well made simpler style. The difficulty is to identify it! Has anyone tried the Matsumura chisels from Japan Woodworker, they got Fine Woodworking's gold star - but the competition did not include fancier brands

 

[David C]

Has anyone else had these problems with Recent APTC Iyoroi Paring chisels Please?

i.e. Bellied backs and a tendency to curl more as metal is honed from the back.

Very impressed with your tapping out, not an easy job.

I have found that chisels in the £ 30-40 range seem to be suitable for professional work without being too fancy. But it is difficult to find a good range of long paring chisels at this price level. Craftsmans Choice used to have a satisfactory set which we liked but no longer carry that particular brand.

David C

 

[ivan]

Thanks for the compliment DC! Tapping out is not too difficult. Use a block of hard end grain for support (under the tapping position only) and the ball end of a ball pein hammer of medium weight. Tap gently on the soft back (~2mm dimples) over the curved part to lenghten it and so remove the convexity. One looks very posh - cold hammered by the blacksmith to tease out..., the other less so as most curvature was at the sharp end.

FW visited Iyoroi who seemed to run a 'factory' - looked like a victorian Sheffield workshop - with a production line. The writer appeared to suggest forging was by trip hammer, and specials only, by an individual master blacksmith. Unsurprising really, as one man alone can't supply the world.

 

[David C]

Ivan,

That sounds very useful and doable. I will have to try it.

The tapping out I had difficulty with is used on the bevel of plane blades, as described by Toshio Odate. This needs to be very precise, as I found to my cost, as only the soft part of the bevel must be tapped!

David Charlesworth

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Has anyone tried the Matsumura chisels from Japan Woodworker

I have a couple of Matsumura dovetail chisels. They are nicely made (everything appears in their right place. They even come with the hoops set correctly), and hold a good edge for a long time .. but .. there is too much flat on the sides - far too much for a true dovetail chisel. So I am now (finally) going to grind them to a true triangle.

This can be seen here: Dovetails to the left, bench chisels to the right.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[ivan]

The only bevel I have tried tapping out was on a marking knife. I used a very light ball pein and held my breath - you can't see the site of impact till you lift the hammer again...Plane irons are so thick you'd have much more room! Seriously I think I'd make the tapping out gubbins pictured in Odate's book if I'd got a really expensive blade.

Thanks for the word about Matsumura' s chisels, Derek, I was wondering about getting my sister in the US to send me some of his parers.

 

[David C]

I have yet to meet a Japanese dovetail section chisel which does not have a considerable squarish edge.

Edges often seem to be formed at 4 degrees.

The narrow ones have a tall triangular section which is extremely uncomfortable when applying downward pressure on the spine.

Don't really understand this type and do not generaly recommend them, as I can see no practical advantage.

David C

 

[Aled Dafis]

Can someone please enlighten me as to why someone would want to tap out the bevel on a japanese chisel (or any type of chisel for that matter). The back (ura?) I can understand if it gets too small, but i'm baffled about the bevel.

It's probably blindingly obvious, but it's been bothering me for the last couple of days, so please enlighten me.

Note to self : Must get hold of Odate's book.

Thanks
Aled

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Can someone please enlighten me as to why someone would want to tap out the bevel on a japanese chisel

Aled

I was a bit puzzled by that statement as well. As far as I am aware it is only the Japanase plane blades that require tapping out. The chisels do not need to be tapped out. As you hone them, your final few swipes on the back of the blade to remove the wire edge automatically removes some of the hollow.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[ivan]

The tapping out of chisels above referred to a method of straightening what was basically a badly forged chisel - it was longitudinally convex, as you looked on the back (the side you flatten) Tapping out the length of the blade made a bent chisel more or less straight, as it should have been. It wasn't the bevel that was tapped.

Plane blades are tapped out when sharpening starts to cut into the hollow on the back. Tapping on the bevel bends the blade enough so that with a bit more back flattening a proper edge can be sharpened again. Experts suggest that after tapping out, the blade cuts better than when new. Possibly this action pre stresses the bevel, so making it more rigid.

There's no reason why chisels couldn't be tapped out on the bevel when sharpening breaks into the hollow on the back, apart from the skill needed to hammer a very small area with good control. I managed it OK on a 6 quid knife (I thought this was pretty low risk!) and it saved a lot of grinding, but I don't think I'd want to tap out the bevel on an expensive bench chisel cos I'd probably go and take out a bXXXy great chip! Japanese plane blades are thicker generally, so have a wider bevel which should be harder to miss...

 

[mr.nfla]

Hallo.
Do You now the site Iyoroi....?

Thank you.

Federico

 

[David C]

I don't think Iyoroi have a website?

Some can be seen on;
Dick Fine tools
Aptc
The Craftsmans Choice
Magma?

David