How can I find someone to produce a chair designed by me?

[Mreagleeyes]

pineapple = pineapple

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Mreagleeyes wrote:

however in my eyes this is a closed group for me. A fine collection of carpenters but try getting on that list.

Chris.

Not envy just a sad feeling for the up and coming young people on the circuit who are taking things one step further than Dovetails and veneer's. It's an old boys club that has no place in this modern age.

Interesting comment Mreagleeyes. I am a DMOU member and don't recognise the description of carpenter as being a prerequisite for membership. I've never met any DMOU members that are either carpenters or joiners, and I believe all members are furniture designers and makers in one form or another; or if they are not full-time practicing furniture designers and makers, or business owners in the field, they are closely associated with the profession, eg, those like myself that teach the subject and are, nowadays, mostly part-time practitioners in terms of producing new items for customers and the market.

What specifically is it about the aims, philosophy and activities of DMOU that troubles you? Is it the exhibitions of work that the organisation puts together? Or is it the conferences? Or perhaps it's the online discussion group that's used as a means of offering the membership support and information on a wide range of furniture issues that bothers you. There again, maybe what irks you is the lobbying activities that DMOU undertakes with organisations, including some people with connections in government, to help improve support, recognition and the profile of UK based furniture designers and makers both in the UK and, to some extent, even overseas. Slainte.

 

[Doctor]

Singing Dude- Don't you think a few of the members can be a bit pompous?

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Singing Dude- Don't you think a few of the members can be a bit pompous?

I'm sorry Doc. I didn't realise my post came across as pompous. I was really just trying to tease out from Mr Eagleeyes what bothered him so much about DMOU-- he has a strong opinion, presumably because he's learned something about DMOU's philosophy, membership criteria, activities and its machinations to form an opinion. I am a DMOU member but that doesn't mean I think it's perfect. It has strengths and weaknesses like any other organisation. Slainte.

 

[Mreagleeyes]

Mreagleeyes wrote:

however in my eyes this is a closed group for me. A fine collection of carpenters but try getting on that list.

Chris.

Not envy just a sad feeling for the up and coming young people on the circuit who are taking things one step further than Dovetails and veneer's. It's an old boys club that has no place in this modern age.

Interesting comment Mreagleeyes. I am a DMOU member and don't recognize the description of carpenter as being a prerequisite for membership. I've never met any DMOU members that are either carpenters or joiners, and I believe all members are furniture designers and makers in one form or another; or if they are not full-time practicing furniture designers and makers, or business owners in the field, they are closely associated with the profession, eg, those like myself that teach the subject and are, nowadays, mostly part-time practitioners in terms of producing new items for customers and the market.

What specifically is it about the aims, philosophy and activities of DMOU that troubles you? Is it the exhibitions of work that the organization puts together? Or is it the conferences? Or perhaps it's the online discussion group that's used as a means of offering the membership support and information on a wide range of furniture issues that bothers you. There again, maybe what irks you is the lobbying activities that DMOU undertakes with organizations, including some people with connections in government, to help improve support, recognition and profile of the furniture designers and makers in the UK and even overseas. Slainte.

I visited the Celebration of Craftsmanship & Design a few times to have a look at what the UK makers had to offer and hopefully speak to them about there designs and generally talk to the designers.
Admittedly I had a shaved head and some ripped jeans on as it was a spur of the moment visit, I was met with people who showed no interest in my questions or my desire to look at how there pieces worked.
Betty Norbury was not only rude but left me thinking what the hell was I doing there, I was one of 4 people in there and everyone was offered drinks and biscuits and I was alienated, no idea why as I was a gentleman.
That single visit left a very bitter taste in my mouth and from then on I have tried to incorporate more modern materials in my work, Cabinet making is a dying breed and for them to treat me in the way I did just made me think your welcome to it.

I know a few of the guys on the list and others I have met and always been left with the impression that they somehow think they are better than I am.
Maybe it's just me. If someone shows an interest in my work then I'll do as much as possible to help them with the making and designing of the piece.

I know travel to Milan for there show's, a younger more open selection of designers that love the fact you show an interest in there work.

I would be interested in finding out how the DMOU helps young designer/makers in getting there work out there in to the open market and what relevance having a connection in the Goverment has to do in helping young designers. Hardly the most trust worthy people at present.

It's great that the list is there, but it's very alienating to the younger designers. I have no idea how many cabinet makers there are in the UK but I can guarantee it's more than the 160 odd on the list.
I think it's time that the DMOU realise that there is a new breed of designer/maker in this country that should be helped as much as possible and not made to feel like somehow just because they don't have a dovetail or inlaid veneer in the potfolio of works they are somehow a lesser Cabinet maker.

 

[RogerS]

Was it the Milan Furniture Fair that you went to or a smaller venue?

 

[Mreagleeyes]

The Milan Furniture Fair.

 

[Doctor]

Singing Dude- Don't you think a few of the members can be a bit pompous?

I'm sorry Doc. I didn't realise my post came across as pompous.

Now, now, Richard, I never mentioned your name :lol: :lol:

 

[big soft moose]

pineapple = pineapple

well thanks for clearing that up :lol:

 

[moz]

I visited the Celebration of Craftsmanship & Design a few times to have a look at what the UK makers had to offer and hopefully speak to them about there designs and generally talk to the designers. Admittedly I had a shaved head and some ripped jeans on as it was a spur of the moment visit, I was met with people who showed no interest in my questions or my desire to look at how there pieces worked. Betty Norbury was not only rude but left me thinking what the hell was I doing there, I was one of 4 people in there and everyone was offered drinks and biscuits and I was alienated, no idea why as I was a gentleman.

I don't know. Maybe because they decided they had a snowball's chance in hell of getting you to commission or buy a piece. Why do you imagine people spend a lot of their own time and money to exhibit? To have a good old chat with the uninvited drawer inspectors?

John

 

[Mreagleeyes]

I visited the Celebration of Craftsmanship & Design a few times to have a look at what the UK makers had to offer and hopefully speak to them about there designs and generally talk to the designers. Admittedly I had a shaved head and some ripped jeans on as it was a spur of the moment visit, I was met with people who showed no interest in my questions or my desire to look at how there pieces worked. Betty Norbury was not only rude but left me thinking what the hell was I doing there, I was one of 4 people in there and everyone was offered drinks and biscuits and I was alienated, no idea why as I was a gentleman.

I don't know. Maybe because they decided they had a snowball's chance in hell of getting you to commission or buy a piece. Why do you imagine people spend a lot of their own time and money to exhibit? To have a good old chat with the uninvited drawer inspectors?

John

They had no idea why I was there and I could have quiet easily been there looking for a maker. I'm fully aware of what it costs to exhibit and if it had been me exhibiting then i would have at least shown an interest.
Your answer is exactly what I was trying to say about the makers in this country at present.
Self centered, egotistical people.

 

[Mreagleeyes]

"Far from being difficult in any way, commissioning furniture is an enjoyable and creative process. Some clients come to me after an often long and fruitless search, knowing exactly what they want but being unable to find it."

That's a direct quote from your web site. And then you write this too me. Interesting.

To have a good old chat with the uninvited drawer inspectors?

 

[BradNaylor]

Self centered, egotistical people.

I think that's a little unfair Patrick, but I kind of know where you're coming from.

I've met quite a few of the 'designer/maker' fraternity and generally have found them to be really friendly, genuine down-to-earth blokes who are only too happy to talk about their work. One or two however, have been totally up their own ar$es about their 'art'.

It's actually bloody hard to earn a good living making top-end one-off bespoke pieces; this why most cabinetmakers make or at least supplement their incomes from fitted kitchens and bedrooms etc. In the absence of a well-paid spouse, a good index-linked pension, or earnings from teaching or writing it is pretty well essential.

This is why your experience at Cheltenham doesn't surprise me. Everyone is there for one purpose and one purpose only - to flog furniture to well-heeled clients. The presence of a denim-clad skinhead oik would have been unsettling - snobbery is not restricted to the world of cabinetmaking!

I've never met Betty Norbury, but I believe that she's rude to everybody. Don't take it personally! :lol:

If you want to talk to these guys just drop by their workshops and introduce yourself as a fellow furniture maker. I do it all the time and have never had a dismissive reaction. I've learned a lot and made some good friends in the process.

Cheers
Brad

 

[Steve Maskery]

I've never met Betty Norbury, but I believe that she's rude to everybody. Don't take it personally! :lol:

I have, and I regret to say that that was my experience, too.

CCD is now curated by Jason Heap. I've spoken to him on the phone and he comes over as a really nice bloke and he's a furniture-maker himself. I shall be there on both Mondays (not exhibiting, unfortunately!).

Note that the exhibition is a week earlier than previous years. It usually finishes on Bank Holiday Monday, but that is so late this year that it would interfere with the new College term.

S

 

[moz]

That's a direct quote from your web site. And then you write this too me.

But you're not looking to buy any furniture from me either are you? More to the point, you have dismissed and insulted a large group of serious makers who have put in the time to get to where they are and who are, on the whole, passionate about their craft and generous about sharing their knowledge (which prompted my response). The implication of your response is that I am similarly selfish and ego-centric and that's OK, I can take that on the chin even though you don't know the first thing about me. I've been to Betty Norbury's exhibition as a student furniture maker and I certainly didn't expect to be schmoozed with drinks and nibbles and was content to keep a low profile and have a good look around - because it didn't take a rocket scientist to work out that the whole rigmarole hadn't been put on for the benefit of the likes of me. Be realistic. Would a budding car mechanic in his overalls be welcomed with open arms at the Ferrari stand at a car show? Brad is right, almost all are the most friendly and approachable people you could meet but you make yourself look ridiculous expecting to be treated with parity with rich furniture buyers at a furniture exhibition.

John

 

[OPJ]

CCD is now curated by Jason Heap. I've spoken to him on the phone and he comes over as a really nice bloke and he's a furniture-maker himself. I shall be there on both Mondays (not exhibiting, unfortunately!).

I'll second that. I briefly met Jason a couple of weeks ago and he didn't sound comparable to half the stories I've heard about Betty Norbury's character!!

Does Jason allow you to take photographs (I guess that's what the phone calls were for?) or touch things now?

I kind of agree with what Patrick's saying - makers should be more open to discuss their work. They don't have to give all their secrets away... What if a potential client is lurking nearby and sees the way they 'ignore' another human being - that's not going to leave a welcoming impression. I've met one guy who'll be exhibiting there this year and can safely say that he's much more 'open' than that.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Not envy just a sad feeling for the up and coming young people on the circuit who are taking things one step further than Dovetails and veneer's.

I visited the Celebration of Craftsmanship & Design ... and hopefully speak to them about there designs and generally talk to the designers... I was met with people who showed no interest in my questions or my desire to look at how there pieces worked.

Mr Eagleeyes, I can't speak for all furniture designer makers that are members of DMOU, nor can I offer any reason why the three or four designer makers you met at Cheltenham behaved in the way they did when you approached them. I do know there were some rules for visitors: one big one was a no touching rule. This may have had an effect on the way those people responded to you because the makers at the exhibition knew they couldn't encourage you to poke around, but I don't know for sure of course.

I understand the no touching rule to some extent because of the damage visitors can and do cause to exhibited items-- I've experienced it myself. I acknowledge that no touching rules are possibly frustrating for potential buyers as well as visiting furniture makers intent on a bit of inspection. Since Jason Heap has taken over organising the exhibition I think the no touching rule has been relaxed.

Certainly you are correct saying there are many more professional furniture makers out there than the 160 (more like 200 now) that are DMOU members. There may be a host of good reasons why a furniture designer maker does not wish to join DMOU, and never will, just as I have so far chosen not to take up a long standing open invitation to join The Worshipful Company of Furniture Makers.

I would be interested in finding out how the DMOU helps young designer/makers in getting there work out there in to the open market and what relevance having a connection in the Goverment has to do in helping young designers. Hardly the most trust worthy people at present.

DMOU does accept new furniture designers and makers. I am aware of several recent graduates over the years that have started their own business and joined the organisation, so it's evident that some new designer makers fit the membership criteria, and do want to join. They can take part in the exhibitions organised by DMOU members as well as get involved in other activities. Jason Heap, for example, and already mentioned, was a recent graduate when he joined. So DMOU, I believe can help those new into the profession, if that is the kind of help those new entrants want. Not all new furniture graduates or new furniture designer makers want to pursue a career path that fits into the ethos of DMOU, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Lobbying movers and shakers in industry and governement is par for all fields of activity, including furniture design and making. And if this leads to greater awareness of the field, greater understanding of the profession by the general public; greater support from arts, design and crafts movements, etc, and to improved sales then this has the chance to help those new into the field as well as more established members of the profession.

I think it's time that the DMOU realise that there is a new breed of designer/maker in this country that should be helped as much as possible and not made to feel like somehow just because they don't have a dovetail or inlaid veneer in the potfolio of works they are somehow a lesser Cabinet maker

DMOU is already set up with a philosophy, ethos and membership criteria. Why should it change to take in this "new breed of designer/maker in this country"? If you are one of this new breed that you seem to suggest doesn't belong in DMOU anyway, there may be another route open to you. You could, for instance, start an organisation of your own to capture many of this new breed as members. Then you could organise all the events and so on that you think are important to represent them. Slainte.

 

[cutu]

Hello again,

Thank you very much again to those of you who have contacted us. You should be receiving an email with the sketches as soon as I finish this post...

I unfortunately cannot comment on the issues you are discussing here but it allows me to understand how your industry is structured, etc... so it was fun reading hehe.

Last, on the "smelling a rat" comment (we wont take it as an insult no worries). Reason why I posted in another website - because this one and the other one are the 2 top ones that come up when you search for woodwork forums in Google. That simple. I later realized this one is focused on the UK so much more convenient for us..

Anyway, thank you again for your help and emails. We hope something comes out of all this in the end.

Good luck with the day

 

[Mreagleeyes]

I have not insulted anyone on here and never would, I had a bad experience at a show, and I am entitled to my opinion.
No one at the show had the first idea about who I was, when I showed an interest and asked genuine questions I was met with short and sharp answers.
Never ever judge a book by it's cover, that's exactly what happened to me and that single experience has left me with a very bitter taste in my mouth.

At the time I was in the $1000 a day pay bracket and could have if I'd found something I liked bought it. I was looking for furniture for the new place and thought why not, in the end 'Conran' got my money.
There where no rich furniture buyers there when I was in there, I was the bloke with disposable income hanging out of his pocket.

I didn't expect to get schmoozed with drinks and nibbles but when there bought straight past you and offered to other people and not yourself then I'm sorry that's just rude.

We all struggle now at what we are trying to do and you called me a none serious maker. That comment immediately puts you in a bracket of thinking you are better than me and that's the exact feeling I got at the DMOU show.

To what originally seemed to get everyone's backs up was the 160 odd people on the 'List' that I mentioned, there are plenty of woodworkers on here myself included that could create what these guys are creating, admittedly it would take 3 times as long but it's still possible. I'm still awaiting to know what the DMOU do for the new designers out there and what relevance having a contact in the Goverment has to do with anything.

I know how hard we all have to work at making this life we have chosen to work. I was up at 5am doing my accounts. For me to express and opinion on what I have found in this field is my entitlement, hopefully the next guy that has just got back from the Middle East is met with a smile and maybe a custard cream, I like those.

 

[moz]

Mreagleeyes you did insult people unless you think selfish and ego-centric is a complement. I said the people on the list were serious furniture makers which in no way implies that everyone else, yourself included, isn't. I've said my peace.

John