Hinges on room doors

[sawdust maker]

I have noticed quite often the op hinge is placed at a different distance from the top of the door than the bottom hinge is from the bottom of the door. This appears to be more common on heavier doors. Can anyone tell me if there is a formula for working out the placing of hinges?

Thanks
Paul

 

[chippy1970]

Its 6" down from the top of the door to the top of the hinge and 9" up from bottom of door to the bottom of the bottom hinge then the other goes centre of the two. These measurements have just been passed down over the years to all apprentices I suppose someone must have decided on them a long long time ago.

A lot of office and commercial buildings now have really tall doors and they have 4 or more hinges per door in this case we quiet often put the top two hinges closer together to take the weight better.

 

[OPJ]

As Terry Tibbs said! :wink: On some fire doors, you'll find the third, middle hinges is fitted closer to the top one, rather than halfway between the two (I think that's to do with the weight of the doors).

Sometimes, you may find a variation on the "6 and 9" - for example, some people, bizzarely, set the top hinge 7" down from the top! (I almost got in to an argument with a former silly person employer about this... :x) :shock: If you're replacing a door for someone then it may pay to check the other doors in their home, just so they all look the same.

 

[Waka]

I did read somewhere that the reason for 6" from the top and 9" from the bottom is to do with the angle we look at the bottom hinge, i.e., it will look only 6" from the bottom, or something like that.

I'm sure someone will come along with the right interpretation.

I certainly agree that if you're hanging doors in someones house then its silly not to check the existing distances and work to these.

 

[OPJ]

That's it, Waka, exactly what I was taught at college. If the bottom hinge was only 6" up, it would too low.

 

[chippy1970]

I did read somewhere that the reason for 6" from the top and 9" from the bottom is to do with the angle we look at the bottom hinge, i.e., it will look only 6" from the bottom, or something like that.

I'm sure someone will come along with the right interpretation.

I certainly agree that if you're hanging doors in someones house then its silly not to check the existing distances and work to these.

Me too thats exactly what I have always thought, its the same with most other stuff too. If you look at a room the skirting should be wider than the cornice, doors have wider rails at the bottom and middle than the top and turned newel posts and spindles look better if the bottom square section is longer than the top square section etc etc.

So its the same with the hinges being higher at the bottom they look even when viewed from eye level.

 

[Derek Willis.]

As mentioned, with fire doors, because of their weight, the centre hinge is not centre, but half way betwen the top hinge and the centre line, this reduces the chances of sag, other measurements as stated.
Derek.

 

[andy king]

Another reason is it also moves the hinges away from the end grain on through tenons when hanging traditional stile and rail design doors so that the screws are not going into the end grain.

Andy

 

[Digit]

That's what I thought the reason was Andy.

Roy.

 

[andy king]

It was certainly the primary reason when I was being taught, and in the case of some of the oder doors where the bottom rails are deeper, the bottom hinge is often higher for the same reason, although the bottom hinge is in compression while the top one is in tension, so there is less chance of the screws pulling on the bottom hinge.

Andy

 

[Steve Maskery]

I believe that it is different in other parts of the world, too. I was taught 6/9 but I've also come across 7/10. The reasons are the same and it probably makes a difference with the door style (as opposed to the door stile!).

What do our overseas cousins use?
S

 

[Frank Drew]

Sometimes, you may find a variation on the "6 and 9" - for example, some people, bizzarely, set the top hinge 7" down from the top! (I almost got in to an argument with a former silly person employer about this...

Here in the States we're not quite so rigid but roughly adhere to the measurements mentioned here. One reason for the greater distance for the bottom hinge is that the bottom rail on most doors is wider than the top rail, so avoiding the rail naturally puts the hinge higher up along the stile.

 

[busy builder]

I regularly replace doors for clients and use the 9/6 rule in general.

Though there are a lot of doors using 5" hinges up here so I try and place the hinges as they were originally and can only get 5" in steel, as I haven't found any in brass yet.

 

[tnimble]

I did read somewhere that the reason for 6" from the top and 9" from the bottom is to do with the angle we look at the bottom hinge, i.e., it will look only 6" from the bottom, or something like that.

If that was the reasoning behind it. The somebody...

These measurements have just been passed down over the years to all apprentices I suppose someone must have decided on them a long long time ago.

who came up with that, he would be rather stupid. These are a couple of reasons as the relational distance factor is highly depended on:
- height of the door
- distance of the spectator to the door
- height of the spectatior
- elevation of the door / spectator

As mentioned the location is practical, it's a clearance for the mortice and tenon joints. The bigger a door the more distance the hinges will be from the top and bottom i.e. a cabinet door will have much less spacing than that on a room door of a common house, it will be more for a room door of an estate and even more on cathedral doors.

The difference in rail size (and that of skirting and cornice) are estatically determined relational and heavily depend on the style, period and country. A doors bottom rail can be twice as much or the same. Likewise as a skirting can be 5" and the cornice 3 '

 

[chippy1970]

OH SORRY Laura I MUST BE STUPID AND YOU ARE A PURE GENIUS :roll: :x :evil: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Yes one reason for it is to miss the joints but I did not post that because someone had already mentioned it. I like to think there are a few reasons for the 6 and 9 not just the obvious.

 

[tnimble]

Not you chippy1970, the one who decided on the measurements a long long time ago.

 

[chippy1970]

Sorry mate just a bit tired and touchy at 11 pm last night :lol:

 

[Dibs-h]

Sorry to bring this old'ish thread to life, but felt my question would be better tagged onto the end as opposed to start a new thread.

For a heavy door with 3 hinges (either 6/9 or 7/10) assuming you miss the joints and a 3rd hinge halfway between the mid point and the top hinge - what about (or where to be precise) for a 4th one?

Is it a case of - if there are 4 hinges then 1 & 2 at 6/9 (or 7/10) and then 3 & 4 equally spaced between 1 & 2?

 

[jeffinfrance]

hi guys,

it's all to do with forces.

beacause there are different forces applied to each hinge.

as a door not only wants to shear (drop down verticaly) but also tear (fall away sideways), the top hinge is under greater strain as it takes more weight. the tear forces are much greater at the top which actually puts the bottom hinge under compression. the tearing force also affects the fixings so it is advisable to distribute the weight each hinge takes proportionatly in accordance with the other forces it is subjected to.

by moving the hinges up the door the weight and other forces on the top hinge are redistributed more evenly to the bottom. this is why when using three hinges, the middle one is placed nearer the top.

any decent hinge manufacturer (cooke brothers for example) will have all the mounting information you need.

hope this helps,

jeff

 

[Dibs-h]

Thanks for that Jeff. Found the info on their site, with a door as wide as mine (1150) with a weight of around 50kg, the weight adjustment due to it's width is and extra 26% - so the adjusted weight is around 70KG - which can be safely borne by 3 Grade 11 hinges. I have 4 so, either 3 or 4.

Now just the spacing - probably end up with 4 evenly spaced. The door is redwood, so the last thing I'd want is it warping.