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Help with charging/estimating

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milkman

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I've been asked to quote for some skirting, door hanging and architraving.

I don't want to start asking people to work out a quote on a job they can't see (and more to the point isn't theirs) but some guidance to time would be very welcome.

While I can do it I'm not very experienced in this work (I've been quite clear with the client about this) and have no real idea how long stuff is going to take. I want to quote a reasonable time for this then if it takes me longer, so be it.

Other postings tend to quote £££s so not so good as don't know what rate those are based on.

External doors and fittings, I've seen posts elsewhere mentioning a day? This sound reasonable?
New internal doors and fittings into existing frames, how long do you think for 8 of them including architraves?
Skirting, there's 13 rooms and approx 130m of skirting. I figured to count scribes and mitres but not fixing so I gain on short runs and lose a bit on long runs. Or is it better to charge per meter? (there a couple of bay windows so some trickier joints there)

I don't think I'm going to make loads on this, just want to come out of it more experienced and smarting rather than mortally wounded!

Advice appreciated
Best
Marko
 

Jamesc

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Hi Marko.

I have not quoted for many woodworking jobs (only one) but put quotes together for my day job daily, this often involves quoting for things I have never done before so I am in a similar position.
The aproach I use is to break the job downinto as many small elements as I can and then take an educated guess at each element. I often run through what needs doing, even to trying it out with a mock up or whatever. For instance think about a scribed joint, go through all the processeses from picking up your piece of wood to fixing it into place and assign a time. Add this lot together then multiply by the number of joints.
If you are anything like me you will underestimate the time needed, for a long run this can often even out as I get more experienced I speed up.
Work out all your material costs allowing at least 20% over on everything as there will be wastage and you will inevitably miss things first time round.

Now work out a sensible hourly rate multiply/add this lot together and see where you are. I generally look at the end figure and think 'They will never pay that' my wife then looks at it and says 'you are too cheap again'.

Be sensible, it is all very well doing work for knock down prices to gain experience but it does nobody any favours. Other trademen trying to make an honest living will be compared to you and when you try to get more work at a proper rate you will be knocked down because you only charged x before. I know I've been there and have the 'T' shirt.

Just my 2p worth

James
 

milkman

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Cheers James,
I know what you mean that’s why my question was mostly concerned with timings.
I know my hourly rate and its about standard but whether I can work as fast as others yet I doubt it, but that’s my problem. I want to charge the client as much as he would be charged by any experienced tradesman, then I haven't undercut others as such, just myself if I can't get it done pronto!

Mark
 

Karl

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My opinion fwiw

external doors - 1 day (I don't know anybody who doesn't charge a full day for fitting a timber front/back door).
Internal doors - You could probably do 8 in a day if the frames have been fitted properly (1hour each), but i'd allow 1.5 days just in case.
Skirts/architrave - I price it on 15mins per joint, irrespective of mitre/scribe. 15mins per architrave set.

All the above are from personal experience of how long it takes me, and then decide how much per hour/day i'm going to charge depending on how much work (or not) i've got on. And whether I like the client or not :lol:

Never had to do a bay window skirt so no idea there - though the ones on a job i've been working on today (laying some engineered flooring) were formed from plaster - looked identical to the wooden skirts fitted in the rest of the room.

HTH

Cheers

Karl
 

kostello

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spreadsheet................

then itemise everything.........................

my spreadsheet works in 4 minute increments.

this will tell you how long it will take...

what you charge depends on you.....
 

Tomyjoiner

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Hi Marko.
I would agree with most of the things Karl says. When im pricing i allow a day for an external door.If the internal doors are in existing casings then i usually do about six in a day(with latches) but if they are in new casings then you can add a few to that. Arcs are usually 15 minutes aside. But when you do your price bear in mind what type you are putting on ie 50mm chamfered will usually pin on streight off the saw where as tarus or ogee may need a tickle with the block plane(all adds up) then when it comes to skirts are your walls stud or are they brick or even worse stone and lots of plaster then you will have to screw and plug them on which adds quite a bit of time on when you can usually do a studded out room in a good half hour but if its big 7" tarus that has been standing for a while and is all cupped then things can take a lot longer. Bays are streight foreward enough if they are angled its when they are curved thats when the fun begins, also ask your client if things are to be painted or stained. If its to be painted then sometimes primed mdf can be handy if they want big profiles as it doesnt cup. Just a few things to bear in mind,hope it helps.
Tomy
 

Hudson Carpentry

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External Door + frame - Full days work £180 labour
External Door using current frame - £120 5 hours
Internal Doors (not fire doors or frames) - 4-8 in a day £30 a door or day rate. 1 hour per door
Internal Door with frames - 2-3 in a day £60 per door and frame £70 if im taking the old frame out 2-3 hours per door.
Archs - Takes 10min if tools set up. I charge £10 for one set if I have fitted a door or £5 per set if doing a few or its worked into day rate if im filling a few doors.
Skirting (not including taking off old) - £30 for a standard size 4 wall room with only 4 corners to cut for This takes about an hour. + £5 (extra 10mins work) for any corner thats more then 4 and plus £10 per room if the skirting is of a complex profile.

Time wise if your not that experienced the double all times quoted unless external door to which you can't leave them without over night so its 1 long day. If you take a door off a used bedroom or bathroom make sure you put one back before you leave, its curtsy.

If your asked to take off old skirting then quote 30mins work per standard size rooms and £20 but make sure you tell them that it may go up depending on the condition of the walls. Often you can knock off plaster or loosen bricks which isn't your fault (normally). Loose bricks will need fixing before the new skirting is on so is normally your job unless you loose the whole job to the builder they get in to fix the brick. To fix a brick it takes 10mins and will cost you £5 in cement I normally charge £15 per 30mins I think it will take. Fixing 1 brick may take 10mins but fixing say 5 bricks will only take about 15-20mins as you have already mixed the cement.
 

milkman

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Blimey! I'm bowled over by this response, its exactly what I was after. Thanks for the prices too, I realise that they can be a sensitive issue which is why I asked for timings but thanks anyway.

Best
Marko
 

lincs1963

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Replacing internal doors into existing casings £30/door
Arcs £7.50 per side
skirts £4/metre
Just be aware that if it's an old house that has suffered settlement you may need to increase your time for hanging/shaping your doors to fit.
the majority of my work is on new build and on these we work on £12/door, £5/arc set and £2.20 per metre skirts. A 4 bed detached house with average 13 doors takes two of us just over a day to complete including handrails and spindles etc. What is not done is latches/door handles etc, this is done at final fix.
HTH, regards, Neil.
 
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