Help with awkward customer please.

[chrs_666]

Thanks again for all the opinions.

As mentioned above, the changes i made are not an issue in the slightest - if they were, i would be more than happy to remake doors and drawer front without hesitating.

The customer bought a piece of granite worktop cheaply, and have a friend who can fit it for them.

I have never had an unsatisfied customer before and would rather not have this one so i would like to resolve the issue if i can.

I was hoping to get a few more opinions of a fair price before revealing what i charged, but it was £735.

Thanks again,
Mark.

I assumed supplying of woodblock worktop with my estimate and paint but still not over egging it.

 

[Lons]

Thanks again for all the opinions.

As mentioned above, the changes i made are not an issue in the slightest - if they were, i would be more than happy to remake doors and drawer front without hesitating.

The customer bought a piece of granite worktop cheaply, and have a friend who can fit it for them.

I have never had an unsatisfied customer before and would rather not have this one so i would like to resolve the issue if i can.

I was hoping to get a few more opinions of a fair price before revealing what i charged, but it was £735.

Thanks again,
Mark.

mark

I think that's a very reasonable price and I suspect this "friend" has suggested that she might get a huge discount if she complains. very appealing if she's skint!

I would never put myself in that position but if I had I think I would be digging in my heels and doing exactly what has been suggested. Write to her saying you ould like to resolve the matter and confirming that the materials you used are suitable for purpose. state that the unit remains your property until paid for in full and give her a date by which you intend to remove it. As said, if she further paints the unit or fits a sink and worktop then she has accepted it and should pay.
I certainly on principle would refuse to discount further.

You're in a no win situation. Stick it out for payment or remove it and you have an unhappy customer. Give her it for next to nothing and she'll tell everybody how she put one over on you.

Best of luck, it's a puppy when some ars***** take the p*** - they don't care that it's your living or that you've forked out for materials and spent time.

Bob

 

[Shane]

That's a reasonable price, stick to your guns and do as lons suggested, it aint nice, but some people try and take the pish, and then you've got to make a nuisance of yourself

 

[studders]

I'd take Legal advice before making any attempt to remove what you've fitted, even if it remains unpaid for.

 

[gus3049]

I'm with Studders on this. I have always been advised that once anything was installed in a customers house there is no automatic right to remove it without redress to the courts.

One good reason to always get a deposit covering materials and part labour. Always minimum 50% for me.

There are times when it feels a shame that one can't 'send the boys round' 8)

 

[Dodge]

I'm with Studders on this. I have always been advised that once anything was installed in a customers house there is no automatic right to remove it without redress to the courts.

Hence the reason why I ALWAYS specifiy payment of outstanding balance 7 working days before delivery - No money - No Furniture and if there are subsequent issues the ball is in your court!

Regarding deposits - I too specify that the deposit is non-refundable as again I purchase the materials as soon as I receive a deposit unless I already have the materials in stock - Customers accept my terms by signing and returning a duplicate of my commitment letter

 

[studders]

Hence the reason why I ALWAYS specifiy payment of outstanding balance 7 working days before delivery - ...

Doesn't that put some people off ordering? I'd be quite happy to pay the remaining balance on the day of delivery, once you'd arrived and I've seen the goods but, I'd be very wary of paying anyone in full prior to that.

 

[gus3049]

Hence the reason why I ALWAYS specifiy payment of outstanding balance 7 working days before delivery - ...

Doesn't that put some people off ordering? I'd be quite happy to pay the remaining balance on the day of delivery, once you'd arrived and I've seen the goods but, I'd be very wary of paying anyone in full prior to that.

Same principle always applied when I worked for big companies. If you buy a sofa, you pay up front. If you buy a kitchen from magnet, even if it is £20000, you pay up front (deposit on order and balance 7 days before delivery)

If you have confidence in your product then this should apply to you too. I know how difficult it can be getting and keeping customers but losing one before you start is a lot better than doing all the work and then not getting paid for it.

 

[Dodge]

Hence the reason why I ALWAYS specifiy payment of outstanding balance 7 working days before delivery - ...

Doesn't that put some people off ordering? I'd be quite happy to pay the remaining balance on the day of delivery, once you'd arrived and I've seen the goods but, I'd be very wary of paying anyone in full prior to that.

The customers always get to see the finished goods prior to delivery and see it at various stages of construction. Works for me and I have plenty of work lined up.

Rog

 

[Lons]

I'm with Studders on this. I have always been advised that once anything was installed in a customers house there is no automatic right to remove it without redress to the courts.

One good reason to always get a deposit covering materials and part labour. Always minimum 50% for me.

There are times when it feels a shame that one can't 'send the boys round' 8)

I agree with both of you and it would be very difficult to actually reposess it but this woman apprears to be pulling a fast one and if she can't afford the OPs unit, she can't afford a replacement.

My thoughts are that once you start down the legal route, there is no way back so probably worth the threat that once painted or bench fitted she has to pay and unless she's clued up, the threat of removal might just be enough to make her stump up.

Bob

 

[spannermonkey]

Oh I have similar stories as I do work on the gardening side, "My son, neighbour, Postman, friend etc" says..................
some people want something for nothing.

 

[Noel]

Mark, hard enough making a honest living without this extra hassle.

Personally (oh and I'm not in your trade) I'd do whatever she wants within reason or at least come to a happy compromise, get your money ASAP and get the hell out of her kitchen and get onto the next job. The longer you are there the worse it may become.

 

[tomatwark]

My thoughts are that once you start down the legal route, there is no way back so probably worth the threat that once painted or bench fitted she has to pay and unless she's clued up, the threat of removal might just be enough to make her stump up.

Bob

That is why I suggested sending a letter, I was in the same position about 4 years ago and the letter worked and I got paid.

You are not allowed to just turn up and rip the work out, but giving the customer a chance to get someone else to do the work helps put the ball back in your court if you end up taking small claims action.

Tom

 

[studders]

The customers always get to see the finished goods prior to delivery and see it at various stages of construction. Works for me and I have plenty of work lined up.

Rog

Fair enough if it works OK for you that's all that really matters in the end.

 

[markturner]

Hi, I sympathise, unfortunately, there are too many people out there who think they can withold payment and get away with it, on some flimsy pretext, and because its takes so long and is so time consuming to follow due process, most assume you wont pursue them. Bad tradesmen get all the press,but there are just as many bad customers. I have been in this business 30 years and despite building my business on a reputation for quality, and doing everything correctly, you still get dumped on by people. It can be a bit disheartening, but as long as you are sure in your mind that you have done the right thing, if she still wont pay, agree to change it, then go in, take it out and leave her nothing....... see what she says about that. Some people are just ****ers sadly.

 

[DOOGYREV]

I hope you don't mind me asking for your opinion on a small job i have just done.

But then, the following morning, she phoned up and said:
she didn't like it
It's not what she wanted,
she was expecting a free standing piece, with face frame, skirting etc.
The doors a too thin and feel cheap,
she doesn't like the pine knobs
and she has put a stop on the cheque!

My argument is it's exactly what she asked for,
No part of the design implied a free standing piece, with face frame, skirting etc.
the doors are 5 piece frame and panel using 18mm mdf and 6mm panel (I admit, these could be thicker, but i think they are adequate - i think i will use thicker for any future work)
I gave her the option of porcelain knobs like the old unit, "any other design you would like" or the pine knobs which she went for.

The units are all made of 18mm MR MDF with solid tops and 9mm backs
The draw boxes are (bought in) dovetailed beech
on Blum full extension bluemotion runners
the door hinges are soft close

Please could you tell me how much you would of charged for this, or expected to pay
And whether you think the design and finished article are a good match?

Sorry for the loooong post, but I'm a little wound up about this!

Thanks,
Mark.

Everyone seems to have made very valid points, I can only offer you what I know from my own experiences and practices, Thankfully I havn't had any unsatisfied customers, although I have had a few awkward ones.

As about 90% of my work is from repeat customers or reccomendations I usually alredy know what the customer is like, and know how to deal with them, for the ones I dont I try to get an idea when measuring up, by looking at what else they have done and how long ago it was, and the quality of it, (this is also a factor in my design and priceing)
I have a list of different types of clients and how to handle them, it sounds like your customer is somebody that has been let down or ripped off by a tradesman in the past, in this case you need her to be confinent in what you are telling her, I assume she was happy with the doors you fitted originly, it would seem to me, that she lost confidence somewhere along the way.
I often change the design without any consultation to the customer whatsoever (depending on the customer or change)
in the case of one door instead of two or the knobs I dont think thats got anything to do with it, or you would just have made 2 doors and put other knobs on.
From what I have read it may have been knocking £50 off for changing the design, or the conversation that led you to knocking £50 off, that lost her confidence.
That as so many people have said before, has more then likley got her to get the opionion of someone else, who doesn't know what they are talking about, but who she does have confidence in.

In my opinion your best option is
Try and win her trust and confidence back, You are the expert after all, explain to her the reason why there is a kickplinth instead skirting, as you need to stand by the basin, then point it out to her in her kitchen.
the same with the doors, tell her they are perfectly fit for purpose, her kitchen doors are probably only 22mm, and that you could have easily have made them thicker and would still be happy to, although it is not the norm would do on special request.
As for it being framed, just point out the lack of frames in your drawing, and mention you could have done frames but it would have added to the cost.
Just dont make her feel like an silly person, explain to her the reasons why things are how you have made them,

Your lucky she hasn't mentioned the Drawer front dimentions not being inline, as so many others have, that is the only thing I would complain about, apart from that shes getting a bargain for that price.

As far as her cancelling the Cheque, after she was happy enough to write it, presumibly after seeing your work I would have been livid too, taken my stuff back (regardless of the consequenses) and written it off to experience.

I have never taken a deposit, but I do ask for payment on day of completion.

 

[Woodwizard]

If you see this through, even at your full asking price; the customer will be getting superb value for money.

You on the other hand, have mugged yourself (as i did for years!).

The bottom line (quite literally) is that the customer never had the budget for a bespoke / custom kitchen. A trip to Howdens / IKEA and some imaginative fitting have been more appropriate - but leave that kind of thing to someone else unless that's what you want to do.

You've done your best for her, but expect to charge / pay at least double your quote to produce this in the typical framed & painted style she is referring to.

Though don't say any of that to her at this stage! she might take your head off!

My advice:

Point out to her that the piece has been done as per the style in the drawing, and that the door thicknesses are in keeping with most kitchens.
However, a genuine misunderstanding seems to have occurred (suppress choking sound)... so what can you do to make her happy?

A lesson learned cheap.

In future, a meticulous record of communication regarding the approval of modifications / costs etc (e-mail is good) and then never budge an inch unless you've genuinely messed up!

And if the budget isn't there, the job can't be done. Unless you are a charity.