Help I broke my plane!

[Austinisgreat]

Hi Chaps,

Bought a very tidy Stanley/Bailey No.5 which I have used last 12 months or so to help me to learn the art. I've had mixed success and quite pleased overall.

Its a "Made in England" with dark wood handles. No idea about age.

Anyhoo, whilst adjusting the iron position using the wheel adjuster, the threaded rod (about an inch long) on which the adjusting wheel runs, came adrift from its threaded hole in the back of the frog casting. No matter what I do I cannot get the machine screw to go more than half a turn into its tapped hole in the frog casting. I assume I managed to turn the edge of the female thread over perhaps before I realised it was a l/h thread.

So.... questions. It is I believe a left hand thread.

can I buy a whole new frog?
What is the thead and can I re-tap the blind hole in the frog?
If I have a tap and die set can I re-tap a L/H thread? - Assume need l/h set?

Any better ideas to repair this otherwise perfectly good plane?

Cheers and thanks,

Andrew

 

[AndyT]

People do sell plane bits on eBay and you can also buy new Faithful brand spares easily enough.

But if I were you I'd try drilling out the damaged internal thread carefully and see if you can leave enough good thread to work.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Drill the hole and epoxy the rod in with JB Weld or similar.

 

[Austinisgreat]

Drill the hole and epoxy the rod in with JB Weld or similar.

Phil thanks for that suggestion.

However I wonder if I'd be able to set the machine screw at quite the right angle if I were to try to epoxy it in.

Would rather try to re-tap hole to allow screw to go in.

Anyone know what this thread might be?

Andrew

 

[Vann]

Anyone know what this thread might be?

9/32" 24tpi LH thread

You'll need to go to a specialist for a suitable tap.

I think Phil's suggestion isn't all bad. If you drill it out in small steps, you should be able to get the angle right, so that the threaded rod gets glued in at the correct angle. However, first I'd try easing the start of the thread, to see if you can pick up the old thread again (I suggest that possibly you're trying to screw it back in on a slight angle). Even if you can pick up the old thread, some epoxy wouldn't be a bad idea to stop it unscrewing again.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[rxh]

Are you able to take and post photos so that we can see how badly damaged the threads are?

 

[JimB]

I'd start with Vann's idea of easing the male thread to try and pick up the inner thread. Make sure the hole is clean first. Squirt with wd40 or similar to get any muck out first.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you drill the hole, the bit will pretty much take the easiest route - which is just to skim the threads that are already there. In any case if you are very slightly out there's usually miles of slack on the wheel anyway.

 

[undergroundhunter]

I'm sure I have a spare frog kicking about, pm me your address and I will pop it in the post.

Matt

 

[bugbear]

All repairs should bear in mind that a nice Record #5 from eBay will cost around 15-30 quid depending on luck, so I certainly wouldn't go buying exotic special order taps 'n' dies.

I would have a good look at the threads, both male and female, to see if there's any obvious burring.

Cleaning the male thread could be tried, touching it up (gently...) with a needle file.

If you have another plane, you could try running the "known good" thread into the female thread of the #5.

You could try the "wrong end" of the adjuster bolt in the female thread. Once the thread is good, insert it right way round.

You could also try filing a very slight taper on the end of the male thread to make starting it easier. I suspect once
it's started, the threads will mash into each other, more or less.

In all this do remember it's a left hand thread!

BugBear

 

[Eric The Viking]

Various thoughts:
1. establish exactly what's wrong:
- The female thread is in a casting, so very unlikely to be seriously damaged as it's not very malleable.
- You can have a good look at it with a hand lens and a strong light. It's a relatively coarse pitch thread, so anything really bad will be obvious. For the stud, run the adjuster wheel from end to end - does it jam or tighten anywhere?

2. Apply a fix:
- It's _just_ wide enough to get at the thread with a Dremel-type tool. I got a cheap box of diamond burrs for my Proxxon a while back. They're wonderful for this sort of task - if you can't get in with a tiny sharp-edged thing to clean up the thread, you can probably grind away any damage, as discussed above, by simply removing that bit of thread altogether.
- Hint: don't attempt to get a neat round hole. As I said, it's a casting, so grinding should leave a relatively burr-free edge. You only want to remove damage blocking the thread, nothing more - it doesn't matter how fiddly it is to get the stud started in the hole - you only need do it once!
- Also, as it won't be seen, you can convert the stud into an impromptu tap, by hacksawing a fairly wide slot in the end of it, on a radius/diameter. As long as the bottom end of the cut disappears into the casting when you reassemble, nobody will be any wiser. Personally I'd make a diagonal cut (on a radius), as it's slightly easier to do than trying to cut straight across, but either should work. There is then the problem of turning it, to make it cut: ordinarily I'd use Mole Grips (Vice-Grips), as they're perfect for the task, but they do tend to damage threads (I'm usually doing this with something disposable like a bolt, so it doesn't apply). If you can find some aluminium sheet offcuts, they might work as 'soft jaws' - bits of foil tray from ready meals might do if folded over enough. It's the only bit of this process I'd be slightly uncomfortable about - try gently to start with and make sure the jaws grip well - most damage happens if they slip. Use a cutting compound to lubricate - I've never found anything better than Trefolex, and the tin I have will long outlast me!

- When re-assembling, use a decent threadlock (Loctite) sparingly on the end few turns of the stud. You only need a small amount, and it will get where it needs to be through capilliary action. Don't put it directly in the hole (tempting!). screw the stud home (with the adjuster already fitted and engaged with the stirrup!) and then leave well alone for a day or so, so that the threadlock goes off properly.

With luck, nobody will ever know...

E.

 

[ED65]

Drill the hole and epoxy the rod in with JB Weld or similar.

Phil thanks for that suggestion.

However I wonder if I'd be able to set the machine screw at quite the right angle if I were to try to epoxy it in.

I'd be nervous doing this first time too but you really don't need to be, the existing hole will guide the bit so well it's nearly impossible to go off course. But even if you somehow managed to be a degree or more off as Phil mentioned this mechanism has a lot of slop so it wouldn't be catastrophic!

If you go this route, thoroughly degrease the thread with acetone or cellulose thinners, glop on some epoxy, push home slowly , engage the Y-yoke and then leave it alone for a day or two for a full cure. Should be solid as a rock when you come back to it.

But if you want to try re-tapping the hole you can file or grind a flat angle onto the end of the threaded rod, this will make it a rudimentary tap. I think this is easier to do in practice than a saw kerf already suggested, although they both rely on the same principle.

 

[dickm]

Grandmothers, eggs and all that, but +1 for the reminder above to turn anticlockwise when trying to thread it back in

 

[Bedrock]

Andrew
I am not clear from your description whether you have actually snapped off the threaded rod inside the frog, or whether it has just become unscrewed. If the latter, check the start of the thread on the rod, and if damaged, clean up with a fine triangular file. I am in the office at the moment, but I seem to recall that the rod is just a simple l/h threaded rod at both ends. If so, try the other end of the rod in the hole.

If none of the above, if Underground can't help, let me know as I have several spare frogs for 4s/5s, which you would be welcome to. Probably won't be able to get it to you this side of Christmas. You might have a word with Tony Murland's place in Suffolk, as he had a wide range of 2nd hand tools and bits, last time I was there. Usual cost of old frogs is c.£2.50 in this neck of the woods.

Regards Mike.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'd have drilled it, epoxied it and been using it again by now.

 

[Austinisgreat]

Hi Chaps,

Am overwhelmed by the replies so thanks to all of you for helping.

The threaded rod appears to be ok (no thread damage) as it screws easily into the thumbwheel from either end. One end of the threaded rod does have a larger chamfer at the start of the thread but I have tried screwing back into the frog with both ends, and only achieve about half a turn max - funnily enough it's just enough to bind - but I'm guessing there are three or four turns in there before it (should) bottom(s) out.

I have taken a couple of pics as suggested and will try to resize and post later. TBH it's hard to see very clearly but I got a shot or two.

Thanks to the posters who have offered spare parts, when I have a little more time I will be in touch. That could well be the simplest solution.

As to drilling out, as Phil has suggested twice, due to the angle of the frog I'm not certain I could get it right. Have no drill press with ability to tilt the table etc etc.

Amazing the support on this particular bit of t'internet!

Cheers

Andrew

 

[swb58]

If you take the frog off, mount it in a vice so that the hole is roughly horizontal or vertical and go for it with a drill.

If you've got a selection of bit sizes open the hole up in stages until you can get the rod in. One end of the rod might be more rounded than the other, that's the knuckle friendly end and should be on the outside.

 

[AndyT]

Like swb58 said.
And to clarify - when I suggested drilling I meant by hand not by any sort of powered drill. You probably only need to remove a tiny amount of metal, so go slowly.

 

[ED65]

I'd have drilled it, epoxied it and been using it again by now.

:---) You'd be waiting for the epoxy to cure just like I would :mrgreen:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Use a fast drying one and warm it up.