Hand Drills - The Slope with a Hole!

[bugbear]

I love this thread, because it seems I'm not alone on the slope, nor do I have the biggest problem!

Well that's what I thought, but the family are all down on a bench while I put up more shelves...

Um, honestly, don't think you have the biggest problem...

No #5803 ?! A fine tool (my go-to egg beater, actually)

Goes nicely alongside the Stanley #748 "Continental", which I can see in your stash.

(edit; googling led me to two interesting #748's on eBay;

This one is borderline NOS, and sold for 17.67 + postage.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-STANL ... 0878374001

This one is in "OK" condition, and the auction start price was ... £59.93

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STANLEY-Conti ... 0551035461

)

I've probably ended up with more braces than I really need.

BugBear

 

[jimi43]

One...just one of you ever mention the "C" word to me with reference to infills and you're done for! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink:

Ever thought of becoming a pilot BB?

You certainly would know what to shout on the intercom just before a crash landing!!! :mrgreen:

So....ALF....is my "other one" a true Millers Falls or am I on the wrong track? If feel you qualify as an expert on this subject...there's certainly no hope for you on the collector front! In fact...I think you are approaching the "M" word classification!!! :wink:

Jim

 

[Alf]

No #5803 ?!

I have fond memories of mashing shirts in the gear wheels of wheel braces - why would I change now?

The Stanley breast drill is one of the ones on the "too far gone, so it's going" pile, so please don't convince me of its merits. Should probably break it for spares (a few braces have already gone that way), but the spares box is threatening to turn into two spares boxes, which kinda defeats the purpose of the world's longest workshop spring clean...

Jim, could be a MF - could not. As ever, no-one seemed shy of copying everyone else's designs. MF usually seem to have been pretty keen on making sure their name was on the tool somewhere though, so I'd hedge towards not (for safety).

 

[condeesteso]

Scouse - sorry, been away on holiday by mistake. A quick glance says you are ahead. I seriously thought a while ago that the seven I had was wrong, a failing of sorts. I feel better now.
You may be the man I need: one North Bros 12" brace please. (You are clearly quite good at finding this stuff). If you fail me I suspect BB has one. Good heavens, I only want one. I find this hoarding thing a little odd actually.

 

[Scouse]

Ok, Alf wins, I only have one spares box, but I think BB is trying to nudge a further drill-slope descent out of me... and now I've got to look for a 5803 and a 748. It's slippery down here...

one North Bros 12" brace please. (You are clearly quite good at finding this stuff). If you fail me I suspect BB has one. Good heavens, I only want one. I find this hoarding thing a little odd actually.

I wouldn't mind one of these myself, don't know why though.

And it's not hoarding, it's collecting. No it's not, that's worse; it's...erm... amassing, no that's not much better... stockpiling? LORD NO! Congregating? Yes, that's very civilised; a congregation of drills. Phew. 8-[

 

[bugbear]

No #5803 ?!

I have fond memories of mashing shirts in the gear wheels of wheel braces - why would I change now?

I too have oily gear marks on a once-favourite shirt.

BugBear

 

[jimi43]

One word of warning for anyone keen to slide down this particularly fun slope....

When restoring old drills...when disassembling...remember....they didn't use ball races much in those days...and whatever you do...don't get too excited when you find the cog drift pin that you pull the shaft out over a huge pile of shavings from a previous whittle!

Those twelve little balls make a rather fun but ultimately annoying treasure hunt at 11pm....DAMHIK!!!

(homer)

Jim

 

[Scouse]

Those twelve little balls make a rather fun but ultimately annoying treasure hunt at 11pm....DAMHIK!!!

I've got some spares, if you had trouble finding your balls last night, so to speak... :mrgreen:

 

[jimi43]

Those twelve little balls make a rather fun but ultimately annoying treasure hunt at 11pm....DAMHIK!!!

I've got some spares, if you had trouble finding your balls last night, so to speak... :mrgreen:

Amazingly, I managed to find the last two before the crack of dawn.....and now they are firmly back in their little groove alongside their brothers and sisters!

I thought I would have to resort to a magnet at one point.

I didn't take any pictures (thankfully)...as I felt that would have been too humiliating! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

And after that little detour into the land of double entendre....we restore the thread to it's sensible programming....... :shock:

Jim

 

[condeesteso]

Found this on ebay, and it needs to go somewhere... this is about drills so it'll do. Described as a boring tool, Millers Falls of course. Unfortunately it's in the States and he's after £450 on it. Looks fun though:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fine-Millers- ... 459wt_1337

 

[jimi43]

Geeeesus Louise...Douglas...it looks like an actor from "War of the Worlds"............ :mrgreen:

I say go for it! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[AndyT]

'Tis a lovely thing, to be sure. Not too common over here, as they fit into the period in the US when timber framed houses were the normal thing, but before portable power tools. They were used to drill out mortices in chunky framing timbers. No demand for them here, where load-bearing brickwork was everywhere until the 1970s or so.

Presumably the augur bit advances automatically into the timber - anyone know if it's the machine doing the advancing, or a leadscrew on the bit? Does the bit have to match the drill to go at the right rate? Can you vary it?

IIRC, Roy Underhill uses one on his five bar gate.

 

[condeesteso]

No way am I buying that... the shipping would a a few dollars too. Andy knows far more about this item than I do. I just liked how it looked and have a weak spot for Millers F. Just acquired an MF No5 hand drill to add to my 'congregation'... still not even close to Scouse's though. And I do keep an eye out for a Darwinator* which if ever found would go on display somewhere in the house (wifey won't mind, surely?)
[* the one with the balls on top, christened Darwinator by Alan.]

 

[AndyT]

To keep this rather pleasant thread going a bit longer, and to remind Jim that he's supposed to be doing some wip pics of his new 4 speed drill, here's a little bit more info about it.

This ebay item http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180726278792?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 is yet another example of the same sort.
I didn't post the link earlier in case of sparking a furious bidding war between forum members, but it went for £4.99 so I think that objective was hit ok. The point to note is that unlike mine or Jim's it has a maker's name. The casting has the letters LAX CONTAL on it.

Contal was the name of the inventor who patented the ratchet mechanism as an improvement to the existing design, in 1920. I showed his patent earlier, but he doesn't seem to be the originator of the basic idea.

The earliest patent I can find for the idea of the perforated disk is from a Fred Hedinger in 1915, though his design did not have the simple in-and out mechanism for disengaging the pinion which the Contal design had.
You can read his patent here.

The other obvious difference is that his drawing shows a five speed disk

so there's a challenge to you all - who can find one of them?

 

[Scouse]

Just acquired an MF No5 hand drill to add to my 'congregation'... still not even close to Scouse's though.

Pictures?

I have to admit that my No5 is the only one I wouldn't part with, the only one I don't use and the only one I've done no work on. It's in original condition, and is a bit of an oddity with a long side handle which apparently was a feature of, and unique to, turn of the 20th century drills sold by the Montgomery Catalogue.

I'd like to give it a clean (there's no rust, only a bit of dirt), but I'm scared, to be honest; it only cost 99p, so it's not the money and I guess it's not going to be worth much anyway, but it's the removal of 100 years of history. Daft, I know, but hey...

Andy's challenge is also duly accepted!

 

[condeesteso]

Scouse!! - hasn't arrived yet... but I'm really worried I won't use it. If you don't why ever would I. Wonder now will it have a long handle, I will have to wait and see. And I paid £20 for mine, so at market prices you are well up. (or I'm a pr*t). I'd say you done well. I do think I might just pimp this one up and look at it.
AND Where's my North Bros?? I'm becoming impatient.

p.s. Scouse - nice bench, did you make that?

 

[Scouse]

Hi Douglas

Ebay is one of those funny things, you can pay £1 for a thing one day and £20 the next. I would give £20 for a No5 because it is a handy size and good for delicate work with the wide main gear.

Sorry about the North Brothers, I'm having trouble finding a pair, one each!

As for the bench, it's by Richard Maguire and is honestly the best money I have ever spent, took four of us to carry it ten yards and up two steps into the workshop!

I have to say I admire you for building your own, can't wait to see it when it's finished.

El.

 

[condeesteso]

Scousey! If it takes four blokes to carry one bench ten yards, how far can one bloke move one bench in...

[I need to consider this because when I finish this, it shall require moving.]

Sorry, off-topic, I resign now.

 

[condeesteso]

Back to drills - the MF No5 arrived:

It's the shorter handle so standard I guess... although I think it's the rare GL version: Goes Luvvly.
Didn't when I first got it, a bit grouchy, but was very dry so a quick clean and lube and it's silky now, as Millers usually are I find.
But I have a query. The end float on the main shaft carrying the chuck is quite a bit, about 2.5mm.
There is a thrust washer between the chuck-side pinion and the frame, and the shaft / pinion will move to close on that washer effectively tightening the tolerances between crown and pinion in the process. It works nicely like that but the amount of float did puzzle me. When I took a Stanley 803 to pieces recently it had a nice ball-bearing acting as the thrust thingy (sorry BB, no idea at all what to call that).
No sign it has been taken apart so I don't really expect anything to be missing. I would consider taking it apart if I knew what needs to be done, but it works fine.
What is yours like Scouse, and any other info on what i should be expecting please?
These pics show the 2 extremes of movement on the axis of the shaft:

 

[condeesteso]

Thought that was it for the day. You know, A Millers a day helps you...
But no, wife appears with booty from a late relative's shed:

There are makers here I don't know. The lower one is 803 sized, 2 pinion, seems nicely made, and marked: "J A Chapman Ltd, Sheffield" (side handle missing, maybe in the shed still).
The brace is not a great one, has the remains of a label on the handle but impossible to read anything. But the breast drill at the top is 2 speed, missing side handle (but that may still be in the shed somewhere), marked "Clipper. Made in Fleetway, England".
I'll do a bit of research, but any info appreciated. I think I am now up to about 9, maybe 10. A congregation in one of those really small churches you see perched on a hill in the Dales.
Edits:
added: 1937: Stanley Works entered the UK market with the acquisition of J.A Chapman of Sheffield.

First look, Clipper Fleetway proving slightly more elusive.