Guide To Type Of Finish

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Apologies in advance for the question, but is there a basic guide that gives me the type of finish I should use for a specific wood type/item that I've used/made?

Other than paint, varnish, fence treatment and the odd drop of stain, I have never had the need to finish anything with oils, waxes, stains etc. I have trawled the web for advice, but the more I look the more confused I become ( which isn’t too difficult!) #-o

In one case I find a number of finishing products are used on a single piece of wood, but in the next case only a single product is used. Then there is brush on or wipe on, sand or don’t sand, oil based or water based, and the list goes on!

As this is all new to me, is there a basic guide or rule of thumb that I can use so that I choose the right type of finish for the wood I am using, or item I'm making, as I don’t want to ruin something that I’ve 99% completed.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Obi Wan ccasion5:

 

[ED65]

Apologies in advance for the question, but is there a basic guide that gives me the type of finish I should use for a specific wood type/item that I've used/made?

In short, no. Many (the majority) of woods can be finished in just about anything you can think of depending on how you want the thing to look and the level of protection you need.

In one case I find a number of finishing products are used on a single piece of wood, but in the next case only a single product is used. Then there is brush on or wipe on, sand or don’t sand, oil based or water based, and the list goes on!

Yup, it's a complicated area all right. But finishing itself, actually doing it, doesn't have to be at all so don't despair on that front.

I'd recommend hitting the books, starting with your local library. It might have, or can get in on inter-library loan, one or two of the better books on finishing that will give you an overview of what you can do with what. Two good authors to look out for are Bob Flexner and Michael Dresdner.

There's also plenty of stuff written by these two gents online available to read for free.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Thanks for that Ed. I thought after I posted that there was probably little chance of there being anything definitive to use a rule, and it was really a "how long is a piece of string?" question!

I appreciate the reply and the pointers you've given me of where to look for information. Of course I can always ask specifics here on this forum.

Thanks again

Obi Wan ccasion5:

 

[sunnybob]

End use determines the finish. A kitchen table needs a lot more work than a garden one.

I make mostly boxes, but even then I vary between oil based poly and waxes, depending what look I want to end up with.

If you are making stuff you want to shine, then I totally recommend wipe on poly. It cant get any simpler. 4 parts oil based clear poly (gloss, satin, or matt to your tastes) to 3 parts thinners, a couple pieces of clean rag, and youre away. And, NO STRAY PAINT BRUSH HAIRS, and dont forget NO BRUSH TO CLEAN afterwards.
In the famous words from the Karate kid... Wipe on, wipe off. Be generous, almost flood the corners with the wet rag, scrub it in. Use a clean rag to wipe off any excess. Go make a drink because youre done.

If I dont want glossy then I use Liberon black buffalo wax. It has quite a bit of colour and makes the wood almost glow after only one coat. Two or three and the wood is almost shiny and silky smooth.
And on and on and on.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Thanks Bob. Once again, I appreciate the advice.

I didn't realise that I could make wipe on poly and also so easily! #-o Another new fact I've learned :wink:

Many thanks,

Obi Wan ccasion5:

 

[sunnybob]

It was a revelation to me. I've been banned from paint since 1972 because I'm a paint magnet.
When i did try to paint the wood the stray brush hairs drove me CRAZY!!!! And I'm not patient enough to clean brushes properly so i was just binning them after every use.

Just remember it only works with OIL BASED polyeurethane. which is now getting a little harder to find. Water based does not work. look for a flammable sign on the tin, thats easiest way to determine what youre looking at.
I sand to 240 grit before application, and if it needs more than one coat due to imperfections I then sand to 320 for heavy grained wood, or 0000 wire wool for smooth wood before the final coat.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Thanks Bob, yet more great advice

OWK ccasion5:

 

[ED65]

OWK, sunnybob's experience with wiping varnish is similar to most in finding it incredibly user-friendly and forgiving, and it's the way I prefer to apply varnish myself 95% of the time. But some more details are in order.

Firstly the dilution ratio isn't set, you can dilute a lot or a little depending on need, preference and how thick the varnish is to start with; older tins of varnishes will often have become thicker because they've started to oxidise so will often need a little higher proportion of white spirit to get to your favourite consistency than when the same varnish was new. Oil-based varnishes are very forgiving of dilution to say the least, you can thin literally as much as you like. 10:1 is no problem if you wanted to go that far! At that dilution the finish will build very slowly so you wouldn't want to use it much, however, heavier dilutions are useful for giving something a 'barely finished' look, where it isn't at all evident that varnish was used.

And at the other end of the spectrum just a drop or two of white spirit per teaspoon of varnish can make a world of difference to how the varnish goes on. This also applies to oil-based enamels BTW.

Another thing to clarify is that wiping varnish doesn't have to be a wipe-on/wipe-off finish, it can be applied by brush or by roller if you want. And because it's varnish it will dry hard no matter how much of it you leave on the wood, so for certain applications you can (some argue should) not wipe all the excess off. It will harden up just fine, just as it would if you'd brushed on a full coat, but it will take longer to get touch-dry of course. This is in contrast to the genuine wipe-off products like BLO and mixed finishes like Danish oil where the excess must be thoroughly wiped from the surface because they don't dry hard, a failure to wipe the surface dry as the last step in application results in a sticky or gummy surface that can be hard to rectify.

Incidentally Bob Flexner has probably done more to demystify wiping finishes than any other single individual.

 

[sunnybob]

I hate brushes for the reason I stated.... loose hairs. But many people enjoy brush painting and brush cleaning even if I'm not one of them.
Never used a roller, dont really see much point, because , like brushes, you have buy them and then clean them. Cotton rag has to be free in every household.

I feel Danish oil is vastly over rated. It always looks slightly wet, slightly shiny, and slightly finished to me. I have a tin and its slowly solidifying due to non use.
I havent tried BLO, purely because I stumbled across wipe on poly very early in my woodworking learning curve, and my favourite motto is "if it aint broke, dont fix it".

I have wiped on heavy and left it in the past, but found it was a week to dry properly, and still had that "I can scrape this with my fingernail" look, so I went back to 2 or even 3 three thin coats.

As in all things, there are enough choices for everyone.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

ED65 - Thanks for the detailed explanation, as with all your advice, it's a massive help and really appreciated.

From your explanation I can see that really anything goes with wipe on poly and that there is a massive scope of how the finish is applied. I suppose by experimenting with the level of dilution, I have limitless choices of what finish I can achieve. I shall also check out Bob Flexner's site.

SUNNYBOB - Thanks again for you input, and again, always appreciated. I agree with you that brushes donate bristles to what ever is being painted, and having an abundance of cloth around the house, but I have had decent results with foam rollers when using various paints.

I've absolutely no idea about any of the oils, but as I said previously, and as a beginner, it's a case of experimenting with everything prior to final application.

Thanks again to you both,

OWK ccasion5:

 

[ED65]

I hate brushes for the reason I stated.... loose hairs.

Any decent brushes won't lose hairs after the first use or two. A really good brush may not lose any because they pull the loose bristles out at the factory, although there's always a chance the process misses one or two.

But no getting around the brush cleaning. Even using better brush-cleaning setups, e.g. multi-stage washes and a final rinse in stronger solvent, it's still a bit of a faff. Hard to beat wiping on with a rag for ease and convenience!

I feel Danish oil is vastly over rated.

I have to agree. You can get the same look but with much better levels of protection by other means, and much more cheaply.

I have wiped on heavy and left it in the past, but found it was a week to dry properly, and still had that "I can scrape this with my fingernail" look, so I went back to 2 or even 3 three thin coats.

Yeah drying conditions are everything with this sort of thing. Anywhere that high humidity causes problems with oil-based stuff drying thinner applications are the way to go.

 

[ED65]

Welcome!

From your explanation I can see that really anything goes with wipe on poly and that there is a massive scope of how the finish is applied.

Yup, varnish is incredibly versatile in this way (and others too). It's underrated these days.

A safety note in case you don't read this elsewhere before trying it for the first time, there's a danger of spontaneous combustion with the rags or paper towels used to wipe on varnish if they're left bunched up. Dry them flat on the ground or draped over the back of a chair, or alternatively to keep the odour in check you can stuff them in a lidded tin or jar with water in it.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

http://www.waterstonesmarketplace.com/b ... &hs=Submit

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

ED65 - Thanks again. I've always been pretty 'anal' about anything flammable/combustible in my garage, so any used rag is always left at the bottom of the garden and disposed of accordingly :wink:

PHIL.P - Thanks for the link. At those prices, a bargain

OWK ccasion5:

 

[MikeG.]

Thanks for that phil.p. I've just ordered a copy (£0.74 + p&p!!).

I've just used a water based lacquer on my old oak bathroom floor, and I have to say I'm so impressed with it that I'll be trying it on some furniture soon. Guaranteed non-yellowing (which I don't think any oil-based varnish can claim), and available in ultra-matt to full gloss, easy to apply, dries quickly, looks great.

We haven't talked about oils much. I was something of a fan for a year or two, mainly because of the ease of application. I'm now living with the results...........and I've gone off them. I have half a tin of Osmo PolyX which is unlikely to ever be applied to timber. Osmo stuff is very much the flavour of the month, but I urge newcomers to caution. There is every chance you'll be disappointed with the stuff, particularly bearing in mind how much it costs.

 

[MikeG.]

ED65 - Thanks again. I've always been pretty 'anal' about anything flammable/combustible in my garage, so any used rag is always left at the bottom of the garden and disposed of accordingly ........

I've actually gone out of my way to try to make such rags catch fire. I've rolled them up in a box of shredded paper, shavings and kindling. Nothing. Not a thing. Not even a hint of warmth, let alone the conflagration I'd been led to expect.

Saying that, though.........follow the advice, people, because you never know.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Thanks for your input Mike. Useful info about the use of oils. Interesting results of your 'combustion' experiment, but as H&S used to be part of my remit, I think I'll err on the side of caution :wink:

OWK ccasion5: