Dibs-h
Established Member
Karl":3r82nazs said:
Equally don't leave the payment till the end and then take a cheque - especially if it could bounce.
Stage the payments. Probably more applicable to some of the larger jobs - say a weeks work or more.
GOING IT ALONE!!
- Thread starter mike-reid
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Equally don't leave the payment till the end and then take a cheque - especially if it could bounce.
Stage the payments. Probably more applicable to some of the larger jobs - say a weeks work or more.
tjwoodms
Established Member
I wish you the best of luck.
I would have to agree with the other comments on your pricing. I have only been self employed for 11 months and my rates are mid to high 20s dependant on the type of contract plus call out charges. At these rates its still not easy to make ends meet once you factor in running a vehicle tools insurance and so on.
But having said that i enjoy working much more now than i did whilst with wadkin. The hardest part for me is the lack of regular money 2 weeks ago my bank account was fairly sick but all of the sudden several customers have paid and it look quite rosey again.
Again good luck the worst that can happen is you find you have to go back on the books with a firm.
I would have to agree with the other comments on your pricing. I have only been self employed for 11 months and my rates are mid to high 20s dependant on the type of contract plus call out charges. At these rates its still not easy to make ends meet once you factor in running a vehicle tools insurance and so on.
But having said that i enjoy working much more now than i did whilst with wadkin. The hardest part for me is the lack of regular money 2 weeks ago my bank account was fairly sick but all of the sudden several customers have paid and it look quite rosey again.
Again good luck the worst that can happen is you find you have to go back on the books with a firm.
TrimTheKing
Established Member
Hi Mike, I have to agree with the many who say you are selling yourself short aiming at £85pd. You need to be aiming for £150 a day at least and break your jobs down within that pricing scale, half a day 85-90. That way if you only get half a day's work one day, or have some distance to travel between the first half of the day and a smaller job later then you are still keeping your head above water.
Here are some very basic calcs assuming you would work a 5 day week and take bank holidays off:
Daily rate------------------------------------------150-----85
Calendar days in a year------------------------365
Number of lost weekend days----------------104
Working days in a year-------------------------261
Yearly earnings-----------------------------------39150-----22185
Working days less bank holidays-------------253
Yearly earnings----------------------------------37950-----21505
Working days less 3 weeks annual holiday---238
Yearly earnings----------------------------------35700-----20230
Now, let's assume you get ill through the year:
Less 1 weeks sick---------------------------------233
Yearly earnings-----------------------------------34950-----19805
Then let's assume you won't be stacked with work for the entire year and knock off a very conservative 1 day a fortnight:
Less 10%----------------------------------------209.7
Yearly earnings----------------------------------31455-----17824
You can very quickly see how rapidly your income can reduce, and out of this you need to pay for tooling, consumables, fuel/servicing on your car, personal liabilities (insurance, life assurance, pension/savings etc) as well as pay yourself a salary.
Don't worry about price affecting your reputation, you will build the rep by doing a good job for a market rate price. If market rate is £150pd and you do a good job, then people will tell people and it will spiral.
Please don't take this as knocking what you are doing, I think it's fantastic and absolutely the right thing for you to be doing and I applaud you for it =D> , just don't let sentiment lead you to charge your life's most important asset, your time, out too cheaply! You can always lower your prices if you geet feedback that it's too high, raising them and keeping custom is much more difficult.
All the very best and I will be keeping an eye on this.
EDIT - I took a break while writing this and others got in there with similar suggestions. Karl's idea of widening your net is a good one too...
Here are some very basic calcs assuming you would work a 5 day week and take bank holidays off:
Daily rate------------------------------------------150-----85
Calendar days in a year------------------------365
Number of lost weekend days----------------104
Working days in a year-------------------------261
Yearly earnings-----------------------------------39150-----22185
Working days less bank holidays-------------253
Yearly earnings----------------------------------37950-----21505
Working days less 3 weeks annual holiday---238
Yearly earnings----------------------------------35700-----20230
Now, let's assume you get ill through the year:
Less 1 weeks sick---------------------------------233
Yearly earnings-----------------------------------34950-----19805
Then let's assume you won't be stacked with work for the entire year and knock off a very conservative 1 day a fortnight:
Less 10%----------------------------------------209.7
Yearly earnings----------------------------------31455-----17824
You can very quickly see how rapidly your income can reduce, and out of this you need to pay for tooling, consumables, fuel/servicing on your car, personal liabilities (insurance, life assurance, pension/savings etc) as well as pay yourself a salary.
Don't worry about price affecting your reputation, you will build the rep by doing a good job for a market rate price. If market rate is £150pd and you do a good job, then people will tell people and it will spiral.
Please don't take this as knocking what you are doing, I think it's fantastic and absolutely the right thing for you to be doing and I applaud you for it =D> , just don't let sentiment lead you to charge your life's most important asset, your time, out too cheaply! You can always lower your prices if you geet feedback that it's too high, raising them and keeping custom is much more difficult.
All the very best and I will be keeping an eye on this.
EDIT - I took a break while writing this and others got in there with similar suggestions. Karl's idea of widening your net is a good one too...
mtr1
Established Member
How much experience do you have? if you have none or very little and you charge a day rate of £150, and you take 3 days to do a 1 day job. you will soon find yourself out of work, better to price jobs I would have thought so you take the loss and not your reputation. you will soon get the hang of pricing or you will go out of business anyway.
All of my work comes from 50% word of mouth(my wife would say mine), 35% from my website, 10% from an ad in most of the parish news letters/magazines, and 5% from van sign writing and business cards at events(partys,bbqs).
Apart from above, all other advertising has brought other advertisers wanting to sell me more advertising. All of the free listing sites have brought a big fat £0 but they don't cost so I guess it can't harm. Think hard where your advertising will have the most effect, or you might as well just throw money away. What kind of area are you thinking of going into? Site fitting, Joinery, Cabinet maker? Hope it all goes well for you by the way.
All of my work comes from 50% word of mouth(my wife would say mine), 35% from my website, 10% from an ad in most of the parish news letters/magazines, and 5% from van sign writing and business cards at events(partys,bbqs).
Apart from above, all other advertising has brought other advertisers wanting to sell me more advertising. All of the free listing sites have brought a big fat £0 but they don't cost so I guess it can't harm. Think hard where your advertising will have the most effect, or you might as well just throw money away. What kind of area are you thinking of going into? Site fitting, Joinery, Cabinet maker? Hope it all goes well for you by the way.
BradNaylor
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I had a chat with Steve Maskery about pricing the other week, and he reckons that although self employed people work long hours and don't take time off, they can only bill 1000 hours a year.
I poo-pooed this but then thought about it afterwards - and he's absolutely right!
So if you want to earn £25k you need to charge £25 per hour. The 'slippage' between what you think you're earning and what you actually do earn is horrendous!
I poo-pooed this but then thought about it afterwards - and he's absolutely right!
So if you want to earn £25k you need to charge £25 per hour. The 'slippage' between what you think you're earning and what you actually do earn is horrendous!
wobblycogs
Established Member
I'd just like to wish you all the best and throw in my 2p's worth. I've been self employed for a few years now (not in the field your looking to enter though).
You are most certainly cutting your own throat with those sorts of prices. Personally, I'd probably not employ you if you came in with a quote like that because I'd be wondering why you were asking so little.
I've looked at how much it costs to run my business and assuming I'm going to take a salary that makes it worth while I need to bring in about £120 per day on average. Don't forget that it costs quite a lot to run a company (insurance being one of the worst drains on cash).
IMHO, I'd set up straight away as a limited company. It's a bit more paper work and you realistically need an accountant to make up the books at the end of the year but you can get a decent accountant for about £400 a year if you shop around and he should save you that much by helping you avoid tax (nothing illegal, just simple tax efficiency). If you go limited you will need to set up a company bank account, I managed to bag one with Santander (when they were still Abbey) with has no charges
If you feel that you can't currently gauge how long a job will take maybe do your first few jobs for a fixed price. Record how long they take and use that to gauge future jobs. It sounds silly but time yourself at first doing all the various different parts of the job e.g. how long does it take you: to get your equipment out (no pun intended), set up, do the job, put everything away, clean up, etc. You probably don't want a company van at first but you can claim mileage etc.
Anyway, I look forward to hearing about how it goes. It'll be hard at first but stick at it.
You are most certainly cutting your own throat with those sorts of prices. Personally, I'd probably not employ you if you came in with a quote like that because I'd be wondering why you were asking so little.
I've looked at how much it costs to run my business and assuming I'm going to take a salary that makes it worth while I need to bring in about £120 per day on average. Don't forget that it costs quite a lot to run a company (insurance being one of the worst drains on cash).
IMHO, I'd set up straight away as a limited company. It's a bit more paper work and you realistically need an accountant to make up the books at the end of the year but you can get a decent accountant for about £400 a year if you shop around and he should save you that much by helping you avoid tax (nothing illegal, just simple tax efficiency). If you go limited you will need to set up a company bank account, I managed to bag one with Santander (when they were still Abbey) with has no charges
If you feel that you can't currently gauge how long a job will take maybe do your first few jobs for a fixed price. Record how long they take and use that to gauge future jobs. It sounds silly but time yourself at first doing all the various different parts of the job e.g. how long does it take you: to get your equipment out (no pun intended
), set up, do the job, put everything away, clean up, etc. You probably don't want a company van at first but you can claim mileage etc. Anyway, I look forward to hearing about how it goes. It'll be hard at first but stick at it.
NKE
Established Member
…..and don’t forget that’s before you have deducted the cost of equipment, petrol, materials and then the chunk the chancellor wants….
When I set up on my own I worked out what I had to turn over a month to be able to support my family, business overheads and tax, and then tried to project the demand I could generate for my product…and from there worked out what I needed to charge to keep afloat.
It was pretty tough for the first five years or so but also the best thing I ever did.
When I set up on my own I worked out what I had to turn over a month to be able to support my family, business overheads and tax, and then tried to project the demand I could generate for my product…and from there worked out what I needed to charge to keep afloat.
It was pretty tough for the first five years or so but also the best thing I ever did.
petermillard
Established Member
Just to add, there's a standard 'cost of doing business' calculation that's probably well worth doing - I did this for myself when I first became self-employed all those years ago, and my accountants now include it in the 'starter pack' for any sole-traders they get enquiries from. I have it in an Excel spreadsheet if the OP (or anyone else) is interested??
The following is the blurb I wrote to accompany the spreadsheet - sounds more complex than it is:-
------------
Take all your overheads - these are regular (weekly, monthly, quarterly, whatever) costs that occur over a working year, and will typically include rent & rates on premises/workshop, business insurance, all vehicle costs, all likely annual professional fees (accountancy, legal etc...) all phone costs, all advertising and promotional costs, subscriptions to professional organisations, equipment repairs and renewals, health insurances, any additional computer equipment, office supplies, professional development (courses and extra qualifications), internet - broadband, web site & email - basically anything and everything that relates to the general running of your business and isn't tied to a specific job.
Add to this the typical (gross ) salary you'd like to achieve - be realistic about this, it's important!
Then divide this total by the number of billable days you're likely to work. Again, be realistic; there are not 365 billable days in the year, not even close! For what it's worth, I work on the basis of 200 billable days in the year, but obviously your calcs may be totally different to mine - though interestingly 'four days a week on the tools' over 52 weeks only equates to 208 billable days...
This simple calculation ([total likely overhead+preferred salary] divided by [number of billable days]) will give you the day rate you need to achieve to maintain this level. Now, nobody lives in isolation, so if you end up with a day-rate of £490 when everyone else in your area is charging around £180, then you might want to take a look at those calculations again!
Similarly, you might want to leave the 'salary' out of the equation altogether, and work out what your business (or proposed business) is actually going to cost to run, then figure out if you can afford to do it on what the 'going rate' is in your area.
---------------
Cheers, Pete
The following is the blurb I wrote to accompany the spreadsheet - sounds more complex than it is:-
------------
Take all your overheads - these are regular (weekly, monthly, quarterly, whatever) costs that occur over a working year, and will typically include rent & rates on premises/workshop, business insurance, all vehicle costs, all likely annual professional fees (accountancy, legal etc...) all phone costs, all advertising and promotional costs, subscriptions to professional organisations, equipment repairs and renewals, health insurances, any additional computer equipment, office supplies, professional development (courses and extra qualifications), internet - broadband, web site & email - basically anything and everything that relates to the general running of your business and isn't tied to a specific job.
Add to this the typical (gross ) salary you'd like to achieve - be realistic about this, it's important!
Then divide this total by the number of billable days you're likely to work. Again, be realistic; there are not 365 billable days in the year, not even close! For what it's worth, I work on the basis of 200 billable days in the year, but obviously your calcs may be totally different to mine - though interestingly 'four days a week on the tools' over 52 weeks only equates to 208 billable days...
This simple calculation ([total likely overhead+preferred salary] divided by [number of billable days]) will give you the day rate you need to achieve to maintain this level. Now, nobody lives in isolation, so if you end up with a day-rate of £490 when everyone else in your area is charging around £180, then you might want to take a look at those calculations again!
Similarly, you might want to leave the 'salary' out of the equation altogether, and work out what your business (or proposed business) is actually going to cost to run, then figure out if you can afford to do it on what the 'going rate' is in your area.
---------------
Cheers, Pete
Good Surname or what ?
Established Member
Mike,
It seems to me that you have the right attitude to make a success of this. Add in the great advice from the guys on this forum who have allready trodden that road and I think you'll make it. It probably won't be easy, but perhaps in the hard times these words may help.
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt.
"Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910
Best of luck. Please keep us posted on your progress.
Phil
It seems to me that you have the right attitude to make a success of this. Add in the great advice from the guys on this forum who have allready trodden that road and I think you'll make it. It probably won't be easy, but perhaps in the hard times these words may help.
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt.
"Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910
Best of luck. Please keep us posted on your progress.
Phil
Mike.C
Established Member
Good luck Mike.
I seem to remember in the dim and distance past that Paul Richardson wrote an article that ran over several issues of Furniture and Cabinetmaking about starting up your own business and what to add to the quote when pricing up a job. Then he explained about what to include when trying to work out your daily rate and mentioned things that I would never have thought of like workshop electric and road tax, and then divide by 365.
Cheers
Mike
I seem to remember in the dim and distance past that Paul Richardson wrote an article that ran over several issues of Furniture and Cabinetmaking about starting up your own business and what to add to the quote when pricing up a job. Then he explained about what to include when trying to work out your daily rate and mentioned things that I would never have thought of like workshop electric and road tax, and then divide by 365.
Cheers
Mike
laird
Established Member
I've just lost a whack of time (and am about to lose some more) trying to sort out a brain tumour. This sort of problem may occur whether you're self employed or not - and either way you've got to have the cash to cover non earning periods.Scrums":15obw3wx said:no such thing when you're self employed
................................
Chris.
Not moaning, just being realistic.
matthewwh
Established Member
Mike,
First off bloody well done - a small step for man, a giant leap for Mike and his family.
If you are thinking about fitted furniture it may be worth talking with Simon from Oryx Design, he was thinking about offering kitchen fitting courses and both the train fare and the training are wonderfully tax deductible! Simon is a fantastic guy and has a vast technical knowledge and understanding of the industry.
Another idea is joining the federation of small businesses who can help you out with inexpensive bank accounts, insurance etc, free legal advice, and access to other small business owners in your area through networking events (you'll meet new friends in the same boat and potential clients - these are exactly the type of people you want to be targetting).
For leaflets google vistaprint for dirt cheap but very high quality printing that you can design yourself online. Don't mess around with boot fairs, go for a drive and find the street with the biggest houses, electric gates and big shiny mercs in the driveway - work the fertile ground first and then go down from there. Loaded people work bloody hard for what they've got and don't have the time for handywork - they really appreciate a good reliable bloke, don't mind paying for a job well done and are just as quick to recommend you to more good clients.
Look like the kind of guy they'd like to have in their home, smart checked shirt, clean jeans with no holes, polished shoes that you take off at the door and then put back on once you're on the dustsheets, clean shaven, smelling nice, a big smile and a headful of jokes that are suitable for kids.
The normal advice is to lease a new van as this looks smart and doesn't require a bunch of capiatal, but second hand ones are a steal at the moment so you may be better off getting a bank loan and buying one - don't laugh too hard when they ask for 10% interest it is the going rate at the moment.
Last thing that no one has accounted for yet - the dreaded 'just' factor - as in 'can you just', you will get people who want you to 'just' do this and 'just' to that and before you know it you've 'just' done half a day's work for nowt. Work out now whether you want to 'just' build it into your pricing and be able to say 'sure' with a smile on your face, or whether you want to suck your teeth and say 'well I can, but it'll cost another...'
First off bloody well done - a small step for man, a giant leap for Mike and his family.
If you are thinking about fitted furniture it may be worth talking with Simon from Oryx Design, he was thinking about offering kitchen fitting courses and both the train fare and the training are wonderfully tax deductible! Simon is a fantastic guy and has a vast technical knowledge and understanding of the industry.
Another idea is joining the federation of small businesses who can help you out with inexpensive bank accounts, insurance etc, free legal advice, and access to other small business owners in your area through networking events (you'll meet new friends in the same boat and potential clients - these are exactly the type of people you want to be targetting).
For leaflets google vistaprint for dirt cheap but very high quality printing that you can design yourself online. Don't mess around with boot fairs, go for a drive and find the street with the biggest houses, electric gates and big shiny mercs in the driveway - work the fertile ground first and then go down from there. Loaded people work bloody hard for what they've got and don't have the time for handywork - they really appreciate a good reliable bloke, don't mind paying for a job well done and are just as quick to recommend you to more good clients.
Look like the kind of guy they'd like to have in their home, smart checked shirt, clean jeans with no holes, polished shoes that you take off at the door and then put back on once you're on the dustsheets, clean shaven, smelling nice, a big smile and a headful of jokes that are suitable for kids.
The normal advice is to lease a new van as this looks smart and doesn't require a bunch of capiatal, but second hand ones are a steal at the moment so you may be better off getting a bank loan and buying one - don't laugh too hard when they ask for 10% interest it is the going rate at the moment.
Last thing that no one has accounted for yet - the dreaded 'just' factor - as in 'can you just', you will get people who want you to 'just' do this and 'just' to that and before you know it you've 'just' done half a day's work for nowt. Work out now whether you want to 'just' build it into your pricing and be able to say 'sure' with a smile on your face, or whether you want to suck your teeth and say 'well I can, but it'll cost another...'
Benchwayze
Established Member
All the best of British to you Mikey. Great to see someone deciding to give it a go. I really wish you all the luck you deserve Oppo!
Incidentally, there's another No. 4 on the way in the next few days, and if I can find it a rip-panel saw, (Should you want one you cvan re-sharpen.)
Although you can buy hard-points for about a fiver these days.
let me know.
John
Incidentally, there's another No. 4 on the way in the next few days, and if I can find it a rip-panel saw, (Should you want one you cvan re-sharpen.)
Although you can buy hard-points for about a fiver these days.
let me know.
John
Dan-K
Established Member
I can't give any useful advice on starting up and several people have commented on the rates aspect already, but just to say I recently paid £150 for an electrician for a day. This was the labour component of a straightforward job, approx 8hrs with a lunch break and he was on the 'competitive' end of the quotes we got :wink: I'd not expect to pay much less to any sort of tradesman, and like others have said, if you are 'too' cheap that can be just as off-putting to the customer as over-charging
All the very best with the new venture
All the very best with the new venture
richburrow
Established Member
Mike I think you are taking a good step forward.
I know this might sound very tedious.....
I am sure that there is a market for assembling Ikea style furniture. It could be a nice little add on to your business.
Ikea offer a service have a look at what they charge.
Just an idea
Good luck
Rich
I know this might sound very tedious.....
I am sure that there is a market for assembling Ikea style furniture. It could be a nice little add on to your business.
Ikea offer a service have a look at what they charge.
Just an idea
Good luck
Rich
big soft moose
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just to add the best wishes mike (and note that your box of rubbish - i mean preloved- tools is growing)
btw I'd second what the others said about price £85pd is too low - I dont do day rate (wood) work , but for craft fairs in pricing up my turnery I'd calculate prices based on materials +overhead+ labour at £25/hour then adjust it if it seems to low or high
When I used to do day rate work with a chainsaw I'd usually start from £400/day (to reflect the higher degree of skill /risk involved in working aloft) , though again that would be adjusted up or down per job (ie down if i was taking away a lot of decent wood, up if the client was a rich barsteward who could cleary afford it)
Bottom line is to charge what the market will stand and not to underprice yourself startiong out as it is difficult to raise prices on repeat buisness later - also a lot of people think cheap=poor quality so you may actually get more custom charging more
btw I'd second what the others said about price £85pd is too low - I dont do day rate (wood) work , but for craft fairs in pricing up my turnery I'd calculate prices based on materials +overhead+ labour at £25/hour then adjust it if it seems to low or high
When I used to do day rate work with a chainsaw I'd usually start from £400/day (to reflect the higher degree of skill /risk involved in working aloft) , though again that would be adjusted up or down per job (ie down if i was taking away a lot of decent wood, up if the client was a rich barsteward who could cleary afford it)
Bottom line is to charge what the market will stand and not to underprice yourself startiong out as it is difficult to raise prices on repeat buisness later - also a lot of people think cheap=poor quality so you may actually get more custom charging more
Lons
Established Member
petermillard":2e6bg5d4 said:
I'd endorse that 100%
I did a similar excercise when I set up my business 15 years ago and I excluded the salary bit as I wanted to see if I could actually afford to do it at all.
It's very easy to get carried away with the dream of working for yourself. you have to have the drive and downright singlemindedness to make it happen (unless you're very lucky).
You'll have to work bloody hard and long hours and in the early days, if you calculate your actual hours (inc accounts / estimates etc) you'll get a shock at how little your rate actually is.
If successful, it will be the best thing you ever did though!
Incidently - right from the start I made the decision to produce quality work for a premium rate. I never advertise - all word of mouth and I guard my reputation vigourously. I've always had more work than I can handle and once you've got a few good jobs under your belt it's amazing how quickly word spreads.
remember though - bad reputation moves even faster.
Good luck
Bob
Good luck Mike,
Lots of good advice here, especially about your pricing; I'm with all the others, you need to aiming for at least £150/day. However, having said that, what with overruns, the unknown unknowns and straightforward silly person cock ups, I'm sure that I've done many jobs for loads less than that.
However as Karl said, if your target market doesn't have the money, it doesn't have the money so you'll have to be sensitive to that, I have a sort of unofficial ad hoc redistributive policy. The wealthy clients, relative to me most of them are wealthy, get to help the less well off clients.
Also, a little preparation for the vagaries of self employment might help later: Clients change their minds...a lot, try not to present them with too many solutions, a few good choices are better all round. The really interesting jobs are the ones that involve new techniques, materials etc, don't be put off by the unknown, it might just be the most interesting thing you've ever had to learn and there are a million places and people who are happy to share their knowledge with somebody who values it. Painful experience says always get a least 50% upfront, on most jobs that will cover all the materials and pay you a pittance if the client decides to go bankrupt! Try and get it all written down ie. get the clients to agree to a drawing and a scheme of works, even if it's only rough, we all have to suck up a few niggles but when it comes to the big stuff that's really going to cost you money, a piece of paper can be a great help when you need to dig your heals in.
Going self employed is the best thing, it certainly has it's moments but they all add to the mix.
Best of luck,
T
Lots of good advice here, especially about your pricing; I'm with all the others, you need to aiming for at least £150/day. However, having said that, what with overruns, the unknown unknowns and straightforward silly person cock ups, I'm sure that I've done many jobs for loads less than that.
However as Karl said, if your target market doesn't have the money, it doesn't have the money so you'll have to be sensitive to that, I have a sort of unofficial ad hoc redistributive policy. The wealthy clients, relative to me most of them are wealthy, get to help the less well off clients.
Also, a little preparation for the vagaries of self employment might help later: Clients change their minds...a lot, try not to present them with too many solutions, a few good choices are better all round. The really interesting jobs are the ones that involve new techniques, materials etc, don't be put off by the unknown, it might just be the most interesting thing you've ever had to learn and there are a million places and people who are happy to share their knowledge with somebody who values it. Painful experience says always get a least 50% upfront, on most jobs that will cover all the materials and pay you a pittance if the client decides to go bankrupt! Try and get it all written down ie. get the clients to agree to a drawing and a scheme of works, even if it's only rough, we all have to suck up a few niggles but when it comes to the big stuff that's really going to cost you money, a piece of paper can be a great help when you need to dig your heals in.
Going self employed is the best thing, it certainly has it's moments but they all add to the mix.
Best of luck,
T
Well done mate, and good luck.
The 1000 hours comment from Steve Maskery that Brad mentioned is very true, and is the reason you should avoid the "can you just" jobs.
My (lighthearted) response to "can you just" is by saying 'I don't 'just' do a job, I do it thoroughly', followed by 'when would you like me to book it in". Another favourite is 'do you do odd jobs?' - answer - "a lot of my jobs are odd, but i don't do odd jobs. What do you need doing and when". This usually results in some extra work, but you've made the point you're a professional and not willing to do a bodge.
And word of mouth is priceless.
The 1000 hours comment from Steve Maskery that Brad mentioned is very true, and is the reason you should avoid the "can you just" jobs.
My (lighthearted) response to "can you just" is by saying 'I don't 'just' do a job, I do it thoroughly', followed by 'when would you like me to book it in". Another favourite is 'do you do odd jobs?' - answer - "a lot of my jobs are odd, but i don't do odd jobs. What do you need doing and when". This usually results in some extra work, but you've made the point you're a professional and not willing to do a bodge.
And word of mouth is priceless.
superunknown
Established Member
I wish you the very best of luck. I am in my third month of doing the very same thing. So far I am loving it.
There is some great advice in this thread, I wont repeat.
'Make sure your not to cheap', the advice most people have given me. If your work is good and you are good at what you do you will be fine.
If you ever fancy a chat of want any help, let me know.
The very best
Steve
There is some great advice in this thread, I wont repeat.
'Make sure your not to cheap', the advice most people have given me. If your work is good and you are good at what you do you will be fine.
If you ever fancy a chat of want any help, let me know.
The very best
Steve
