jobsagooden
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Which way round would you fit a flb door from house into garage?
flb door
- Thread starter jobsagooden
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DomValente
Established Member
I'd have the flb on the garage side, which would mean the door opening in towards the house.
Dom
Dom
I assume you mean a fire blank ? Or a fire door ?
A fire door will have a lock plate in it and tell you what way to hang it as it will say LOCK on the top . A fire blank is a solid door so i would hang it what ever way the fire is comming from
A fire door will have a lock plate in it and tell you what way to hang it as it will say LOCK on the top . A fire blank is a solid door so i would hang it what ever way the fire is comming from
DomValente
Established Member
Ah I thought it meant Frame Ledge and Brace
Keith Smith
Established Member
You can get fire resistant ledge and braced doors but I've never fitted one
You beat me to it Keith . But have you noticed just last year it all changed to one company specifying what you should fit otherwise the fire door is void . I wonder who has shares in that company ??????
As i remember attaching anything to a fire door will conduct heat making the fire door void , so hinges and locks actually void the fire door aswell as the intuthingy strip expanding so if you are in the room with a fire you cant open the door and if you do you cant close it behind you .
As i remember attaching anything to a fire door will conduct heat making the fire door void , so hinges and locks actually void the fire door aswell as the intuthingy strip expanding so if you are in the room with a fire you cant open the door and if you do you cant close it behind you .
DomValente
Established Member
Well that was my first thought Jason and if it is a fire door shouldn't it open into the garage
Shadowfax
Established Member
As long as a fire door is hung in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions it will not be void as a viable fire resisting door.
That is if they say it needs three hinges two will not do. They must be the correct type and made from the correct material. The door type will have been tested with all the furniture in place. That includes the intumescent strips and seals and a suitable closer. It will only be fire-resisting if it is shut! Anything else fixed to the door could make the warranty void, however.
No FR door will actually pass the BS 476 test unless it has been tested as a door set. It needs the frame to be part of the set up.
It won't make any difference which way round the door is swung as long as the frame is a good fit to the door. There is a lot of information I could give you concerning the bahaviour of fire doors under fire conditions but let's not get boring, eh?
The gap around the door should be no more than 3mm and considerably more than that under the door if necessary, within reason.
For what it is worth if you are in a room where the temperature is high enough to swell the intumescent material in the strips you will not be in a fit state to be opening the door, believe me!
Hope that helps a bit.
SF
That is if they say it needs three hinges two will not do. They must be the correct type and made from the correct material. The door type will have been tested with all the furniture in place. That includes the intumescent strips and seals and a suitable closer. It will only be fire-resisting if it is shut! Anything else fixed to the door could make the warranty void, however.
No FR door will actually pass the BS 476 test unless it has been tested as a door set. It needs the frame to be part of the set up.
It won't make any difference which way round the door is swung as long as the frame is a good fit to the door. There is a lot of information I could give you concerning the bahaviour of fire doors under fire conditions but let's not get boring, eh?
The gap around the door should be no more than 3mm and considerably more than that under the door if necessary, within reason.
For what it is worth if you are in a room where the temperature is high enough to swell the intumescent material in the strips you will not be in a fit state to be opening the door, believe me!
Hope that helps a bit.
SF
Your quoting the new regs that are subject to one companies opinion and have tied up the fire door regs . No doubt pushed through by the same people that hold shares in Pilkington K glass , Corgie and grey flipping wire part P electrics .
Ok let me pull this apart just for fun .
Three hinges , Why ? More conducting heat parts to invalidate the door and harder to kick the door open to save a life .
Smoke seal / intuthingy strip , Why ? cut another groove into the solid lipping to invalidate the door and harder to open /close just incase there is someone on the other side that needs to get out .
Fitting that special fire door lock that invalidates the door and also stops people getting in and out ........ shall i go on ?
P.S the door set means 25mm door stops glued and heat conducting screws so you cant even take the door stops off to get at someone in a smoke filled room .
Ok let me pull this apart just for fun .
Three hinges , Why ? More conducting heat parts to invalidate the door and harder to kick the door open to save a life .
Smoke seal / intuthingy strip , Why ? cut another groove into the solid lipping to invalidate the door and harder to open /close just incase there is someone on the other side that needs to get out .
Fitting that special fire door lock that invalidates the door and also stops people getting in and out ........ shall i go on ?
P.S the door set means 25mm door stops glued and heat conducting screws so you cant even take the door stops off to get at someone in a smoke filled room .
Shadowfax
Established Member
OK
As I said if it is hot enough to expand the intumescent material there will be no-one trying to open the door. Not on the fire side, anyway.
The BS has always called for three hinges. Nothing new about that. However, some door manufacturers have had doors tested with two and they passed. I accept many fire doors are installed with two hinges but that does not make them right, according to the BS.
The transfer of heat is allowed for in the specification of a fire door. It will not affect the performance unless the parts have been incorrectly fitted.
If someone needs rescuing there are ways to open doors! I always enjoyed breaking down a door. Basically a vandal at heart I suppose!
30 minute doors are generally good for on-site alteration when fitting. 60 minute doors usually must be manufactured to the right tolerances and cannot be altered on site and still be warranted.
As far as I know the opinion of the companies who make fire doors is not relevant. If they submit a door type for test under the BS and it fails they will have to try again. If it fails, it fails - no matter what their opinions. The tests are independant and a door cannot be marketed as a fire door if it has not passed.
I have been trusting my life (well, safety anyway) to these things over many years and I would hate to think that mere opinions were all that were protecting me!
Cheers for now.
SF
As I said if it is hot enough to expand the intumescent material there will be no-one trying to open the door. Not on the fire side, anyway.
The BS has always called for three hinges. Nothing new about that. However, some door manufacturers have had doors tested with two and they passed. I accept many fire doors are installed with two hinges but that does not make them right, according to the BS.
The transfer of heat is allowed for in the specification of a fire door. It will not affect the performance unless the parts have been incorrectly fitted.
If someone needs rescuing there are ways to open doors! I always enjoyed breaking down a door. Basically a vandal at heart I suppose!
30 minute doors are generally good for on-site alteration when fitting. 60 minute doors usually must be manufactured to the right tolerances and cannot be altered on site and still be warranted.
As far as I know the opinion of the companies who make fire doors is not relevant. If they submit a door type for test under the BS and it fails they will have to try again. If it fails, it fails - no matter what their opinions. The tests are independant and a door cannot be marketed as a fire door if it has not passed.
I have been trusting my life (well, safety anyway) to these things over many years and I would hate to think that mere opinions were all that were protecting me!
Cheers for now.
SF
Well some people are earning alot of money out of these new BS laws that are comming in force .......maybe it's just in my mind eh .
I take it you are a fire officer ? with an axe , hose and a gang full of mates to back you up ? I'm just a humble carpenter that would not want to be trapped by a fire door .
I think a normal victorian door is a better fire door than a half hour fire check door . Would you agree or not ?
I take it you are a fire officer ? with an axe , hose and a gang full of mates to back you up ? I'm just a humble carpenter that would not want to be trapped by a fire door .
I think a normal victorian door is a better fire door than a half hour fire check door . Would you agree or not ?
Shadowfax
Established Member
Well, yes, you could be right. A well constructed door, made from decent timber could easily hold back a fire for 30 minutes. It might even have passed a BS 476 test years ago. But......because of the lack of intumescent strips around the door there will be leakage of hot gases and smoke around the door which will hasten its failure. It could not pass a modern test.
The chances of being trapped by a fire door are slim. The strips will not swell until a certain temperature is reached. At that point it will be too hot for life to be easily sustained. Until that point is reached the door should be easy enough to open.
The intumescent strips actually mean that the 25mm stops are not required. I have a BS document at work that details the behavioiur of a door when it is subjected to fire and what happens to its shape and integrity. It also shows how the number and position of the hinges can affect the movement of the door. This movement under the stress of heat and flame is what dictates the usefullness of the door in these conditions. If it can bend it will pull away from the frame and let hot gases past. This will lead to premature failure. This is the main reason for the extra hinge.
We have to bear in mind that the door is as much for the protection of the firefighters as it is for the occupants of the premises. They will usually be gone by the time that the firefighters are going into the building and it is then that the integrity of the door is crucial. If it has not been installed in accordance with the BS it will fail before the pemitted time. That is not comfortable I can assure you. A lightweight door can last for a few minutes but the real thing is always a much better deal.
The BS has been around for a long time. It is harmonised with the European standards for fire doors and it produces doors that work under fire conditions. It is a stringent test but a very fair one. However, the standard of workmanship is absolutely crucial to the failure time. Leaving parts out that are in the manufactorer's instructions will invalidate the warranty and can lead to premature failure.
I was a fire officer but I am now a fire safety adviser, heading for my second retirement. Fire was and is a great part of my life. Fire resisting doors are probably one of the reasons that I am still here to talk about them, come to think of it! Scary!
Cheers.
SF
The chances of being trapped by a fire door are slim. The strips will not swell until a certain temperature is reached. At that point it will be too hot for life to be easily sustained. Until that point is reached the door should be easy enough to open.
The intumescent strips actually mean that the 25mm stops are not required. I have a BS document at work that details the behavioiur of a door when it is subjected to fire and what happens to its shape and integrity. It also shows how the number and position of the hinges can affect the movement of the door. This movement under the stress of heat and flame is what dictates the usefullness of the door in these conditions. If it can bend it will pull away from the frame and let hot gases past. This will lead to premature failure. This is the main reason for the extra hinge.
We have to bear in mind that the door is as much for the protection of the firefighters as it is for the occupants of the premises. They will usually be gone by the time that the firefighters are going into the building and it is then that the integrity of the door is crucial. If it has not been installed in accordance with the BS it will fail before the pemitted time. That is not comfortable I can assure you. A lightweight door can last for a few minutes but the real thing is always a much better deal.
The BS has been around for a long time. It is harmonised with the European standards for fire doors and it produces doors that work under fire conditions. It is a stringent test but a very fair one. However, the standard of workmanship is absolutely crucial to the failure time. Leaving parts out that are in the manufactorer's instructions will invalidate the warranty and can lead to premature failure.
I was a fire officer but I am now a fire safety adviser, heading for my second retirement. Fire was and is a great part of my life. Fire resisting doors are probably one of the reasons that I am still here to talk about them, come to think of it! Scary!
Cheers.
SF
Shadowfax
Established Member
OK. I will see what I can do. I expect I will have to hunt for the stuff I want but I will give it a go.
Can't do anything until Tuesday, though. Please remind me if I forget!
I'm not supposed to copy BS documents but I will poach some of the relevant bits if I can. All in the interests of science, isn't it?
Best wishes.
SF
Can't do anything until Tuesday, though. Please remind me if I forget!
I'm not supposed to copy BS documents but I will poach some of the relevant bits if I can. All in the interests of science, isn't it?
Best wishes.
SF
Shadowfax
Established Member
Sounds all right to me!
SF
SF
jobsagooden
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Well I didn't think this will run this much!!!
Checked with building regs, and was told all I have to do is maintain what was there before. But strongly recommended i fit a 30min fire door. So I will do just that. But under protest that they are rubbish doors, that may stop fires, but not burglars, and look horrid.
But I'm still interested, would you think it would look better the back facing garage or house?
Checked with building regs, and was told all I have to do is maintain what was there before. But strongly recommended i fit a 30min fire door. So I will do just that. But under protest that they are rubbish doors, that may stop fires, but not burglars, and look horrid.
But I'm still interested, would you think it would look better the back facing garage or house?
Shadowfax
Established Member
The cheap doors might look horrid but there is a whole industry striving to produce FR doors that look just like "real" doors.
It all depends on how much you want to pay.
For what it's worth my door leading from the house into the garage has mouldings planted onto it. Looks much better than a slab in a frame!
No metal fixings, though. Just glue. Looks like a panelled door from not too far away.
What sort of door would you like? You can have it in glass if you want to take out another mortgage. That includes a glass frame too!
If the door you have in mind is marked with a "risk" side that should face the garage, but you need to tell us what it will actually be.
Cheers.
SF
It all depends on how much you want to pay.
For what it's worth my door leading from the house into the garage has mouldings planted onto it. Looks much better than a slab in a frame!
No metal fixings, though. Just glue. Looks like a panelled door from not too far away.
What sort of door would you like? You can have it in glass if you want to take out another mortgage. That includes a glass frame too!
If the door you have in mind is marked with a "risk" side that should face the garage, but you need to tell us what it will actually be.
Cheers.
SF
Shadowfax
Established Member
Here is some info on fitting an FR door. Just for interest. Quite a lot of what is detailed in this sheet is the sort of thing that is often bodged or omitted but it all relates to the BS 476 part 22 test that has shown what works and what doesn't.
Even this sheet is incorrect in at least one place. I have not read it all but the part about fitting a letter plate is definitely wrong (by omission. It should quote a minimum height as well).
I will try to find some pucka information next week. I was really looking for door behaviour when I came across this but I though it might be of interest.
SF
Even this sheet is incorrect in at least one place. I have not read it all but the part about fitting a letter plate is definitely wrong (by omission. It should quote a minimum height as well).
I will try to find some pucka information next week. I was really looking for door behaviour when I came across this but I though it might be of interest.
SF
