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First post, and straight in with a question! :-) (FLB GATES)

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daedalus

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Hi, this is my first posting, so please be gentle. :) I must have used this site a million times and its only just occurred to me to join the forum.

I recently took woodwork/joinery/carpentry up as a hobby; thanks to Norm Abram really. And too my suprise people were wanting to buy some of my work. People would ask me if I could build them something and if i could, i would. And if i couldnt, i would look up how too for future reference. Now, somebody asked me for a garden gate. I had never built one before, so i though how hard can it be. I decided on a framed gate, using mortise and tenon joints, then cladding vt+g on the front. But i struggle big time with the m+t joints and ended up screwing the joints through the sides in addition to the joints and glue. I then got it treated. I put it up at home, and it looked really, really good. Many people commented, and asked if they could have one.

That same night it rained...heavily. The next morning, my gate had fallen to pieces! I couldnt believe it. But then i realised, i hadnt used waterproof glue...only because i thought all glue was waterproof when dry. And the m+t joints were doing nothing, and when it swelled, even the screws struggled holding it together. Feeling very amateurish, i decided I had no choice...I removed an existing garden gate that had been joiner built and reverse engineered it. A costly exercise, but it has now allowed me to build a garden gate that is very strong indeed. And i have built several of these gates for friends already.

I have now been asked by friends of friends if i can build them a gate too. I dont want to let them down but i dont want to get it all wrong. A few things have been bothering me, so i thought why not join this site and see if I can put my mind at ease and further my knowledge and skills. The problems I have is this:

a) I can build smallish gates using 4x2 framed M+T joints with a top middle and bottom rail. However, for a bigger gate they will need bracing diagonally. Originally i was going to cut a diagonal piece and nail it in place, but i can see the weather affecting this. So, is this piece m+t, or could i use biscuits etc etc. I cant find any books or info on this at all.

b) Also, can anyone recommend an exterior glue that is best suited for gates like this, but not gorilla glue etc...to messy.

Any help is really appreciated and thanks for reading my first post :)
 

No skills

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Hi there and welcome!

Afraid I havent the experience to answer the first question but for the exterior glue I have found the evostick exterior (blue bottles) to be quite good, recently used some to build a small set of gates for the back garden - grab time was fairly quick despite working outside in less than great conditions.

HTH
 

mailee

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The best way to insert diagonal bracing is to rebate them into the frame. Having said that, I have in the past used biscuits and dowels for the same job and they all worked well. HTH :wink:
 

daedalus

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Re rebating them into the frame....

Im just trying to think how you mean. I just cant picture it in my mind. (apologies for sounding confused)
 

deserter

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I would probably use a lap joint on the diagonal, possibly a bridle. It's only purpose is to push against the hinge side to stop the catch side dropping m&t would be awkward with no extra gain I would of thought.
 

foxhunter

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If you use diagonal braces remember to put them in compression, i.e. the lower end should be on the hinge side.
 

chippymart

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Check out Titebond's range of glues. Been using for years and personally think they are the best. Rutlands.co.uk have them on sale at the moment,about 15% off I think.
Martin
 

daedalus

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Some good stuff so far. I have been using TB3 but found it didnt go very far, especially for the price. I have been using Everbuild D4 Waterproof glue instead. Hopefully this will be ok. We have been getting plenty of rain to test my gates out!

Just watched Roy Underhills video as suggested above. I think this could be on the right lines, so im gonna go and have a look at one of my gates to see if this can be used for my gates. I really must take a carpentry/joinery course sometime; although i do believe that i have learnt tons just from watching Norm. :)

If I can suss out how to post a pic on here, I can take a couple of images of my gates which may help describe the issue more clearly.

Thanks so far.
 

Bradshaw Joinery

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if you want to be fancy you can lay your braces onto the door and chop them in so they engage positively against the rail. Like so.




most doors ususally just have the braces cut in tightly and nailed to the rail and the boards, make the braces 2mm ish thinner if doing this way as when the doors move a little the brace wont sit proud of the rail, like it would if you sanded it flush.
braces no more than 45 degrees angle or else they become less effective/just add weight.
 

marcros

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daedalus":3iwc3hhc said:
Some good stuff so far. I have been using TB3 but found it didnt go very far, especially for the price. I have been using Everbuild D4 Waterproof glue instead. Hopefully this will be ok. We have been getting plenty of rain to test my gates out!

Just watched Roy Underhills video as suggested above. I think this could be on the right lines, so im gonna go and have a look at one of my gates to see if this can be used for my gates. I really must take a carpentry/joinery course sometime; although i do believe that i have learnt tons just from watching Norm. :)

If I can suss out how to post a pic on here, I can take a couple of images of my gates which may help describe the issue more clearly.

Thanks so far.
Cascamite/resinmite/polymite is another option if you are after a strong/cheap/waterproof glue.
 

Benchwayze

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I used Polymite, for a job of beefing-up 4 x 2 cedar into 4 x 4. Used biscuits too. The glue just never bonded and the sections just fell apart when I took them out of the cramps. Nothing wrong with the mix, and I have heard other workers complain of the same result. The new Cascamite is polynmite, but the manufacturers won't entertain there is anything wrong with the glue, and insist on blaming the user. :evil:

So I went back to Evo-stick resin-W PVA exterior grade. Maybe the oils in the Cedar were the problem, but a glue that can't cope with that is pretty much useless to me; or anyone else. I still have the Polymite, so maybe I'll test it on some redwood. But I don't hold out much hope. (hammer)
 

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