First machinery purchases - thoughts and advice please

[Hobbyshop]

Hi
My woodworking experience to date has been with a variety of hand tools and power tools but I have just had a new workshop built and I am now looking to purchase some woodworking machinery to "play" with.

My current thinking is to go for a table-saw, a planer/thicknesser and dust extraction, but I am also considering including a bandsaw. On the basis of what I have read on the forums here and from research on the Internet I have shortlisted the following machines.

Table-saw: SIP 01332 – I don’t want a sliding table due to space limitations and this seems to have very little competition at the price point.

Dust Extraction – The record DX4000 with a wheel set so I can move it between machines. I hope this will be suitable for general power tools as well as the new machinery.

Planer/Thicknesser: This is the one I am very unsure about. I was considering the Scheppach HMS2600 CI, but I am also tempted by the Record PT260-X, which appears to be a cheaper and more compact unit.

Bandsaw: May not get this one right away but at the moment I lean towards the Record BS300E.

Bearing in mind that these will be for hobby use only, so usage will be light for this type of machinery then I would be interested to hear opinions on any of these choices.
In particular I would be interested in what people consider to be the limitations of these machines and manufacturers.

I do not want to go overboard with the spec and price of machinery, but also I want to buy once only and not feel a need to change the machines in the future.

Any thoughts please?

 

[Chems]

Table-saw: SIP 01332 – I don’t want a sliding table due to space limitations and this seems to have very little competition at the price point.

Get the Axminster version, its a clone and much better value for money, defiantly try out the sliding carriage, I have it and love it, its so much better than a mitre gauge and takes all of 5 seconds to take off and move out of the way if its in the way.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... rod577232/

 

[woodbloke]

In addition, I'd say that if you're not familiar with all the elfn'safety aspects of each machine, make sure you know what you're doing. They bite and are reluctant to take prisoners - Rob

 

[Hobbyshop]

Thanks Chems!
I thought the table-saw was the one I was completely decided upon.

You have persuaded me I need to take a look at it. Always difficult to get to see this type of machinery living in Swansea, but I was planning to go to the D&M show so I will take the time to get across to the Axminster store at High Wycombe too.

When you say the table is easily removable are you referring to just the table section or is the beam that it slides on also easy to remove?

I need to store the saw against a wall but it would be feasible if the sliding assemble could be removed and stored on top of the saw table.

I definitely need to go look at it!

Rob:
Thanks for the safety advice. I do have some machine shop experience from my early training in engineering, but this was all industrial metal working machinery and I do realise that wood behaves differently.

I have already done a lot of research on working safely with this type of machinery, and will certainly be treating them with the greatest of respect.

Anybody got experience or advice on the Record Planer/Thicnesser and Bandsaw?

 

[Chems]

The table itself has a little pull lock and that then allows it to slide off the rail. That takes seconds. Then you could easily just push it into the wall if it was on a mobile base, no need to take the rail off as it only hangs out about 15cm from the table side. But the rail comes off with 4 big hand wing nuts, that's to allow you to slide the rail back an forth when you want more infeed room on the carriage or less.

Heres mine when it arrived, get an idea of the size of it with different tables on and off (click for larger) mine is the SIP model but its nearly identical to the Axminster model:

 

[RogerS]

.......
Planer/Thicknesser: This is the one I am very unsure about. I was considering the Scheppach HMS2600 CI, but I am also tempted by the Record PT260-X, which appears to be a cheaper and more compact unit.

......

If by compact you mean shorter infeed and outfeed then definitely NO! The longer the better.

I'm not a fan of the fence arrangement on the Scheppach as it is only fixed at one end.

Axminsters' own? Jet ? Separates?

 

[woodbloke]

The Jet 260 p/t is the one I'll be puchasing later on. It's had a well documented problem recently, (fixed by Bob9fingers 'Boblock) but out of all of the ones on the market at the current time, it's probably one of the best - Rob

 

[Hobbyshop]

Chems - thanks for the detailed info.
I would still need to take the rail off because the length of the rail from front to back of the table would give me storage problems.
However, if it can be removed and re-fitted without altering the alignment then I would be happy with that.
The pictures of the Axminster version look slightly different but I will definitely go and take a look at it.
Looks favourite at the moment.
Thanks for the pointer!

Rob and Roger - thanks for the comments, particularly about the fence on the Scheppach. I will look out for it when I go to the D&M show.
The option of the Jet and the separates looks a bit expensive.
I like the look of the Axminster AW106PT2 and the money saved could go a long way towards the bandsaw.

Anybody have any comments on the Record bandsaw, or have I got that one wrong as well?

I like the look of the Record because the fence assembly seems better than others I have seen at the same price range. By all means correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Shane]

Hi, I have the slightly larger axminster saw and it is a very capable machine for the money, albeit needing a bit of a fettle.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post491358.html

As you have observed the rail is different to the sip version, but is still straight forward to remove - the two chrome rails/alu extrusion is held on by two lever bolts, leaving the triangular mounts fixed to the saw body.

 

[Hobbyshop]

Thanks Shane, that was a very informative thread.
It's looking more and more attractive.

 

[Chems]

Regarding your choice of dust extraction, try and get a quiter machine, I had a Record machine as you can see from the pictures, it was very loud but had excellent suck. I've since upgraded to a quieter machine and it really does make working more pleasant.

Get separates if you can, the Axminster CT150 can be picked up cheaply second hand on ebay these days and is more than enough machine for the hobbist, combine that with a good lunch box planer that you can get out when you need (DW773 is meant to be the best about).

Failing that get a machine that you can change modes between planer and thicknesser quickly, no fence taking off or anything as that will quickly become very annoying.

 

[Shane]

Failing that get a machine that you can change modes between planer and thicknesser quickly, no fence taking off or anything as that will quickly become very annoying.

Gotta agree, as much as I'm happy with mine, it is a ball ache when I want to quickly swap between facing and thicknessing odd bits

 

[Chems]

Yeah, even the best laid plans of organization sometimes don't work.

The best two machines I've used were the Jet 260, and the Hammer A3. But both are very expensive. But both of these pay a price in that you have to either constantly pull the machine away from the wall by the height of the fence or leave that gap behind all the time and eat up floor space when your not thicknessing. The other thing with combi machines is they can often be quite tall, and its nicer to plan with your weight over the piece.

 

[Hobbyshop]

Well I posted for advice based on personal experience and I am not going to ignore it when it's given. The guidance seems heavily in favour of a separate planer and thicknesser, so that's the way I will go. More expensive but it sounds like it will be worth it.
Thanks.

Chems. What quieter extraction machines are available.
I have seen the Camvac and Record ranges but not much else. From what I have read the Camvac is not any quieter.

My workshop is attached to the side of my garage (which will also be used for assembly when it's not too cold) so I do have the possibility in the future of siting the dust extractor in the garage and ducting through to the workshop.
I was leaning towards the twin motor extractors from Record (or Camvac) but how would I switch the motors individually and remotely if they were in the garage?
I suppose the decision whether to use one or both motors would depend on which tool I was hooking up to so I could go into the garage to switch the motors when hooking up and then just have a single power switch n the workhop to start and stop it.

I didn't really feel a ducted system was necessary in a small shop though, and I thought it would be simpler to have a fairly portable extractor to move where I wanted.
Is the noise really such a big issue when there will be power tools running at the same time anyway?

 

[woodbloke]

... the Camvac is not any quieter.

I was leaning towards the twin motor extractors from Record (or Camvac) but how would I switch the motors individually and remotely if they were in the garage?

I use a twin motor Camvac 386 and it is noisy :x but the racket can be easily reduced by around 50% by stuffing in a couple of hoses onto the output ports on top of the casing (recommended by Camvac) and directing them behind a cupboard etc. The motors can be switched separately and remotely (no NVR's) so a zapper from Maplins could be used. The capacity of the drum is limited if you do a lot of work on the p/t but the extraction and filtering (three stage) is excellent. In addition it's got a small footprint so could easily go under a bench if needed. I intend to use mine later on for the sucker in a small 'shop system for the small b/s, p/t and disc sander - Rob

 

[Chems]

My workshop is attached to the side of my garage (which will also be used for assembly when it's not too cold) so I do have the possibility in the future of siting the dust extractor in the garage and ducting through to the workshop.
I was leaning towards the twin motor extractors from Record (or Camvac) but how would I switch the motors individually and remotely if they were in the garage?

You ideally want a big chip extractor for the P/T, Axminster do a few models but you can often get them very cheapily on ebay. If you could put this in the garage then duct it through the wall not only would it reduce the noise but it would reduce the dust that will escape out of the machine being in the workshop you spend most of your time.

Then secondary to that a smaller unit for powertools, I wouldn't get an Record drum model only because they aren't very stable and when you wheel them around they fall over. I recently bought a Festool vac, its very expensive but very quiet.

 

[OPJ]

I've been very happy with the Nilfisk vacuum I bought a while ago. I use it with all my power tools and some of my stationary machines that produce very fine dust (bandsaw, sanders, table saw). It's got a relatively low working noise - it's much quieter than the Record Power extractor I sold to Chems - and it does have an automatic power tool take-off function (essential, in my opinion, for anyone working with power tools). It was a bit cheaper when I bought mine, too!

Although it does start and stop simultaneously with your power tools, unlike some other models, it doesn't run on for an extra 6-10 seconds to clear any waste left in the hose. Also, the filters don't seem to take an awful lot of dust before they begin to 'choke' and the suction starts to drop. The Push-Clean system helps if you use it regularly but, I think you can upgrade this model to take a rubber filter (which is supposed to be better at keeping the dust out). Or, you could look at adding a 'Drop Box' in to your system (something like the Triton Dust Bucket or, make your own).

It comes with a good range of accessories, length of hose and mains cable. The wheels are nice and large so it doesn't tip over, even when it's empty. It's quite small so, if you're doing a lot of work very regularly, you may find it fills up too fast (another reason to add a Drop Box, perhaps). If you could afford it, you may want to consider a larger model.

One thing you'll probably find with most extractors is that they don't always come with the perfect fittings for all of your power tools... :roll: But, a lot of people seem to make do with scraps of 40mm pipe and lots of masking tape, for example! :wink:

 

[Hobbyshop]

Thanks for all the comments.

Still very undecided about the best way to go with the dust extraction, but happy that my thinking has already been altered on some of the other kit.

Does the lack of comments on the Record bandsaw mean it is generally an okay machine?
I know people often recommend bigger is better for bandsaws but I think this size will be ample for the type of uses I will have for it. Anybody aware of problems with the Record brand though?

P.S. I have been trying to search back through forum posts on the different machines and I am suffering with information overload.
The more direct responses to my questions here have been very useful.

 

[Chems]

Regarding the bandsaw. I would personally hold off on it. With a big tablesaw you'll be well set for a while. I have a small bandsaw an to be honest I bought it for some resawing which it did but i'd much rather save my money up for a big machine like ollys. Smaller machines are noisy an often can put you off that type of machine all together. Defiantly put it on your too get list!

Edit: just googled your 300e an it looks almost identical to the elektra beckum 260g I refered too. If your set on having a get you buy bandsaw your welcome to buy mine for £70. Will do for the occasional resaw till you upgrade.

 

[Hobbyshop]

Regarding the bandsaw. I would personally hold off on it. With a big tablesaw you'll be well set for a while. I have a small bandsaw an to be honest I bought it for some resawing which it did but i'd much rather save my money up for a big machine like ollys. Smaller machines are noisy an often can put you off that type of machine all together. Defiantly put it on your too get list!

Edit: just googled your 300e an it looks almost identical to the elektra beckum 260g I refered too. If your set on having a get you buy bandsaw your welcome to buy mine for £70. Will do for the occasional resaw till you upgrade.

I think you are right about waiting Chems

I need to use the tablesaw for a while and see how often I get caught wishing I had a bandsaw, and what type of work I would want one for.
Going to put that one on hold for a while.