finger cutter set up, help please.

[Markvk]

Ive bought one of these:

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... rnado+tr22

its the pro version!!!! its so professional that it doesn't have any instructions..... and in the hands of a pro, I'm sure that would be fine..... Unfortunately, I aint such a pro and if I was, would I be buying cheap cutters? anyway that's another debate.....

My question is, how do I set the damn thing up to joint 19mm timber along the end grain?

ta muchly

Mark

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Hi -
first off have you got a router table and some kind of safe and robust clamped sled/sliding arrangement for routing the pointy end of a board (and will you have the cutter covered so that it's impossible to put body parts in touch with it if something slips)? Once you've got that sorted, the simplest thing to do is to practice with a few scraps. You probably don't want to take advantage of the thicker cutter teeth at each end of the cutter head, given you've only got 19mm to play with. The 'male' side of the joint needs to be exactly one tooth (I think I got that right, but measure the size/shape of the teeth and try drawing it out on paper first) different from the 'female' side - you may find it easier to do all the males first, adjust the cutter height (or use a shim/packer cunningly cut to exactly the right size) and then do all the females.
Cheers, W2S

 

[sunnybob]

As said, this is a TABLE mounted router bit. Dont try it any other way, it'll end in disaster (and possiibly blood)

Practice on a lot of scrap pieces. You need to adjust the depth so that when you turn the wood over its a mirror image of the first cut. You can remove as many cutters as you want. Try to keep the wider square one other wise the joint wont close properly. Make sure you note any shins between cutters so you can rebuild afterwards.
Go back to that site you linked and click on the drawing pics. It shows you what you need to end up with.

 

[Markvk]

Ok thanks guys. Yes I do have a table but no sled, and I'm changing the table for a UJK cast iron jobby at the end of this week so getting/making a sled for my 15/20 year old dewalt one would be a waste of time.

so I need to remove the unused cutters? ive seen it done both ways, the grizzly site removes them but the infinity site just moves the square cutter down the shaft toward the bearing to match the thickness of the wood.

Ill try this and take some photos, so that you are more able to give advice.

Thanks so far.

Mark

 

[sunnybob]

How big a sled are you making? I have my 1/4" router mounted to a slab of MDF. about 2 ft x a foot. no need to get technical with jointing boards.

Its SAFER to remove any unwanted cutters. One slip of the fingers and its good bye fingers.

 

[Markvk]

How big a sled are you making? I have my 1/4" router mounted to a slab of MDF. about 2 ft x a foot. no need to get technical with jointing boards.

Its SAFER to remove any unwanted cutters. One slip of the fingers and its good bye fingers.

Its safer, I agree yes but I'm not sure if the cutter has a long enough threaded section to allow for the cutters to be removed. Ill get back to you with some pics.

regarding the sled, I hadn't even thought about it at the moment. all of my time is spent finishing the workshop and learning how to use the equipment that ive bought/inherited. I'm just fitting some skirting in the shed at the moment (yes I know its anal) and I'm making it from scrap that ive scrounged (dreaded pallets and the like) so its all been re sawn planed thicknessed ect, now I need to joint it into lengths and then machine a mould onto it. I know this is over the top but its all about learning how to use my equipment on non critical projects.

so where you might miter (or whatever the normal way is ) a skirting ive decided to have a go with this cutter that I got for xmas to have a practise with it. if I need to make a sled at this point, ill probably not bother and just have a go at something that isn't along the end grain

Mark

 

[sunnybob]

As youre new to the hobby, something that is very rarely considered at first, but is vitally important, is dust collection / extraction.
Wood dust of any kind will destroy your lungs. Theres no discussion about that. get a good dust collection system, and USE IT!

Wear a mask too. i know its a pain, and its come hard to me after a lifetimes working with metal. But wood dust has the same effect on your lungs as asbestos and coal dust. Its a killer.

here endeth the safety briefing, you have been warned.

 

[Markvk]

As youre new to the hobby, something that is very rarely considered at first, but is vitally important, is dust collection / extraction.
Wood dust of any kind will destroy your lungs. Theres no discussion about that. get a good dust collection system, and USE IT!

Wear a mask too. i know its a pain, and its come hard to me after a lifetimes working with metal. But wood dust has the same effect on your lungs as asbestos and coal dust. Its a killer.

here endeth the safety briefing, you have been warned.

LOL thanks dad! no seriously, I understand and have my dust extraction system in progress, ive got to build the lean too for it and the compressor to go in, ive been getting advice from another thread and ill order it tonight... oops no I wont cause theres no room until ive don e the lean too and yandles might have some show specials on!

I do have a good 3m mask and boll goggles. oh and a NEBOSH general certificate in health and safety!

this is the cutter.

as you can see, not enough thread to leave cutters out, on the 18mm ply that's in the shot, that's how it would be set up?

and then to do the second cut the work would be turned over?

but if I want to do end grains I need a sled with hold down clamps?

 

[sunnybob]

I'm a bit one track when it comes to being able to breath. i use the analogy of a go faster boy racer, who buys a supercharged monster engine, but thinks that brakes arent sexy. In a perfect world, you get the dust extraction system working first, then you build the shed. But as long as you are aware the dust doesnt go away. once its in the lung its there forever.
The best economical face mask is rated as FFP3, 1 and 2 arent rated for fine dust.

Onwards.
Theres a spacer between each cutter, can you not put all the spacers back on and do the nut up?

If not, then can you lower the cutter so the unwanted ones are below the table? I've had a router table for about 18 months, and it still frightens me when those blades are spinning.

If not, then try to rig up something above the cutter so you cant trip or lean onto it.
This is a top guard I made for mine

 

[Markvk]

I'm a bit one track when it comes to being able to breath. i use the analogy of a go faster boy racer, who buys a supercharged monster engine, but thinks that brakes arent sexy. In a perfect world, you get the dust extraction system working first, then you build the shed. But as long as you are aware the dust doesnt go away. once its in the lung its there forever.
The best economical face mask is rated as FFP3, 1 and 2 arent rated for fine dust.

Onwards.
Theres a spacer between each cutter, can you not put all the spacers back on and do the nut up?

If not, then can you lower the cutter so the unwanted ones are below the table? I've had a router table for about 18 months, and it still frightens me when those blades are spinning.

If not, then try to rig up something above the cutter so you cant trip or lean onto it.
This is a top guard I made for mine

you just carry on with the advice, its all appreciated and given to me in my best interests!

no the spacers arnt enough with the top 4 cutters removed so they have to stay in, its a bottom bearing cutter so the cutter has to be above the table.

so its hobsons choice. ill have to make a guard of some sort, so I think I'm going to give this part of learning a miss until I have my new table and am willing to spend the time making the accessories I need for it.

just one further question if I may? well 2 if you include that one.... ive a little bag of copper washers/shims with the cutter, what are they for? I assume they are to put between the cutters, but to what end? dang... that's 3 questions....

 

[No skills]

Maybe you can loose some of the cutters by having a false bed on the router table, sheet of mdf or similar.
There's a method of making t&g doors on here somewhere that uses a false bed setup to make one router bit setup do two different height cuts, one with the false bed and one with it removed.
Of course your guarding and extraction must be adapted to suit etc etc

 

[Wuffles]

Could they not be to take up the slack for the nut when you remove the cutting blades as sunnybob is suggesting?


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[Markvk]

Could they not be to take up the slack for the nut when you remove the cutting blades as sunnybob is suggesting?


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possibly ill try tomorrow, but I dont think so. It may be possible to put the unused cutters below the bearing thus enabling them to fit below the table... ill check it out

 

[Markvk]

Maybe you can loose some of the cutters by having a false bed on the router table, sheet of mdf or similar.
There's a method of making t&g doors on here somewhere that uses a false bed setup to make one router bit setup do two different height cuts, one with the false bed and one with it removed.
Of course your guarding and extraction must be adapted to suit etc etc

im not sure what you mean, the cutter has a bottom bearing to control depth of cut, all of the cutters are above the bearing though im going to see if the bearing will come off and allow unuse cutters to be stacked underneath.

 

[sunnybob]

Sorry, I'm 2 hours ahead of the UK so went to be while all this was going on.
The little washers; They are for use after you have had the cutters working for a while and then want to sharpen them. the washers take up the slack between each cutter as they get narrower when sharpened. Keep them safe but you asre unlikely to use them.

Yes, the bearing can be moved to the top although that not usual as care is needed then to not force the wood against a top bearing as thats a lot of sideways force on the shaft. Its sole purpose is to stop the wood travelling too far into the cutter.
Do you have other sized bearings with it? you change bearings to alter the depth of cut. So if you are using very thick timber, the cut can go deeper in than if you were only using thin wood.

To be honest, I'm being a little bit over cautious here. I tend to fuss as you say you dont have router table experience. I've learnt a lot with mine, but even cautious as you can tell I am, I've had a couple of close encounters of the scary kind.

As long as you are using it in a table, and you have a good fence for the wood to run along as it goes through the cutter, it should be an easy job.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Sorry, when I mentioned shims/packers I was talking about under the workpiece - not tweaking the cutter itself! Your primary safety feature is proper guarding so your fingers can't get near the cutter under any circumstances (including when something unexpected happens with the workpiece) DAMHIKT.

My suggestion would be to leave the cutter fully assembled (I don't think that this particular one is designed to be used any other way) - simply raise/lower by the right amount - to do the 'other halves'. To get this height adjustment exact, I cut a piece of scrap and turn it upside down to use as a height-setting guide when in inserted into the cutter.

Cheers, W2S

 

[Markvk]

Sorry its been a day or 2 but wify had ideas for me other than playing in my workshop! Ive shelved this lesson until the new table arrives, ive set the cutter up as per the photo and I think it will work, but the hole in my aluminium table is too small for the cutter to fit through so I cant test it.

 

[sunnybob]

I think that we are over thinking this. i dont like the look of that very much.
I would go back to the original layout with the bearing at the bottom and just be very very very very careful that your fingers dont go any where near the top cutters.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Please do not underestimate how potentially dangerous that large cutter can be.

I wouldn't try and use the bearing TBH, I'd rely on having the workpiece clamped to a sliding table/sled to move it smoothly past the cutter. I think that a sacrificial fence might be another, more tricky, idea e.g. http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attachme ... ct0003.jpg as part of your strategy for keeping yourself safe from the cutter.

I wonder if the small hole in your router table could be an indication it's not quite beefy enough for a cutter like this?

Cheers, W2S

 

[sunnybob]

The bearing on the cutter is safe, and works well. I have the trend box joint cutter which is the same general layout but cuts square fingers. I have used it many times and results are good.

The real concern here is the lack of experience of the operator.

The big safety points to bear in mind are that the hands must be nowhere near that cutter. And when using it, the wood must be held firmly as it is passed along the cutter.

The wood must be passed right to left in front of the cutter. And glasses MUST be worn. If that cutter digs in because of the wood being allowed to move by itself, then the wood could be thrown anywhere in the workshop (or in one of my steep learning curves, 20 ft outside the workshop door)

Routers are great, but you must respect their power.