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Giff

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I am making a front door to replace an existing which is quite rotten. I have made the door now very similar to the existing using the original etched glass but there is a fielded panel at the bottom section and I am not sure how to make it. It is about 600mm x 350mm as the illustration I have a bandsaw and spindle moulder but would appreciate some advice. Thanks Geoff
 

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Jacob

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Really easy and enjoyable to do by hand. You just mark up both edges of the field and plane away down to the marks, with say a 5 or 5 1/2.
Work against two thin laths as stops, pinned to the bench. No need to hold down the panel itself.
Logic says do the cross grain ends first so you can plane off the breakout on the long grain passes, but in fact it works better the other way - long grain first, then cross grain with the plane a bit skewed and working downhill.
 

Giff

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I hadn't thought of that way Jacob I was looking at a machine route. I may try on a test but I am not sure my planing skills are accurate enough. Thanks for the advice Geoff
 

Jacob

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Giff":1vbsqskj said:
I hadn't thought of that way Jacob I was looking at a machine route. I may try on a test but I am not sure my planing skills are accurate enough. Thanks for the advice Geoff
It makes a really good planing exercise for beginners in that it's much easier than planing the same pieces flat. And it involves planing to lines - very fundamental.
If you can't do this then you can't plane anything ever by hand and woodwork just isn't your thing. So have a go on some scraps for starters and don't worry about getting it wrong a few times.
 

Jacob

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Steve Maskery":3bqonh2j said:
Good grief, I appear to be joining the Jacob fan club. Whatever next?
:)
S
Whatever next? £25 a year matey - for full membership. But as you are number 1 I'll knock off a fiver.
 

Hudson Carpentry

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+1 for hand. I love doing these type of fields by hand. Ill take the months free trial before handing over the dosh!

Machine route for this shape I find the table saw and jig the best way.
 

AndyT

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Jacob's not the only one to advise hand work for a one off job like this. A few years back some members of this forum split off and started a different one, with a higher mix of professional tradesmen used to working to time and budgets. I remember a thread or two from some of them on a similar theme, matching an existing pattern of door. Consensus was that it really does not take long; and if you mess one up, you can call it practice and do another.
 

Senator

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The trouble with planing the fieldings to the edges means you end up with a taper to fit into the grooves of the door stiles and rails and this is difficult to get just right for a snug fit.
 

Steve Maskery

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In which case you plane a parallel tongue all the way round and then the field. But I grant you that is a tad more difficult and requires a plane with no lateral margin.
S
 

Jacob

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Senator":3rpttky4 said:
The trouble with planing the fieldings to the edges means you end up with a taper to fit into the grooves of the door stiles and rails and this is difficult to get just right for a snug fit.
Sounds logical but in fact it isn't difficult at all and millions of panels are done this way. If you start planing little tongues it becomes a whole lot more difficult and other problems crop up in the process.
 

Phil Sewell

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So if the edge of the panel is tapered going into the groove when the panel shrinks won't there be a gap left, or when it expands won't the wedge effect try and open out the groove?

I always have a square section on a fielded panel fitting in a groove (not much wider than the depth of the groove), which obviously makes hand planing more problematic.

Phil.
 

Jacob

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Phil Sewell":25to47nw said:
So if the edge of the panel is tapered going into the groove when the panel shrinks won't there be a gap left, or when it expands won't the wedge effect try and open out the groove?
Yes probably.But in reality it isn't noticeable - as you can verify by looking at some old joinery. Looking at stuff is very neglected IMHO as it can answer so many questions.
I always have a square section on a fielded panel fitting in a groove (not much wider than the depth of the groove), which obviously makes hand planing more problematic.

Phil.
More than problematic; extremely difficult and best done by machine. And can be untidy as the edge becomes visible.
 

woodbloke

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Steve Maskery":3uzrzlma said:
In which case you plane a parallel tongue all the way round and then the field. But I grant you that is a tad more difficult and requires a plane with no lateral margin.
S
One of these, done by hand with a parallel tongue:



...is quite tricky. This one was done by hand and the finish is left from the plane...no sanding - Rob
 

Phil Sewell

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Nice work Rob. I've just made about 50 fielded panels (some rectangular some with a curved top) for some oak wardrobes I'm making. Had a tedious time sanding out the machining marks. Good job I had the cricket to listen to!

Phil.


p.s If you could make one with a curved top by hand I would be even more impressed!
 

Hudson Carpentry

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It would depend on the curve. If its an arch type then ok as long as the radius isn't to tight it would be fairly easy (maybe after some practice). Anything else then fair enough impressive if done by hand. Them curves with shoulders, very impressive by hand but forget it, turn on the machines.
 

Giff

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One more question on the fielded panel. This is in solid timber for an exterior door. There will be a moulding inset that could be glued and pinned to hold it in place . Should the panel be left un-glued and the moulding glued in to keep it in place. Geoff
 

Hudson Carpentry

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Yes no glue on the panel. The panels should float. Its common for the panel to have a bit of silicon applied but only after the mounding has been put on.
 

Giff

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Thanks Hud (sorry for the name tag!). I did go with your table saw option for the panel as although I would love to be able to plane it by hand as Jacob said I don't think my planing is up to it. It's not quite like the original as it now has a flat face to the panel and moulding inserted...but it looks a bit more like a second similar door inside this porch. One final question. Has anyone got any tips for getting the glass out intact. It is beaded in on both sides. Thanks for all the help. Geoff
 

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Jacob

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Right now we see it- that's a different panel altogether. I thought you were talking of the fielded panel as found in millions of internal doors and panels but the above is a "raised and chamfered" panel - although terminology varies and is unreliable. So yes it has a flat planed around the edge. I'm not sure how the moulding works but neither it nor the panel will be glued, and only the moulding will be nailed.
There's a simple rule with copying period joinery and that is to copy it exactly. So if you want to know how they did it pull it apart and do it exactly the same. Two reasons for this - firstly and obviously this will produce the desired result, but less obviously - the original maker probably knew a great deal more about joinery than you or me and the chances are that his methods and details are the very best and most practical, which makes it a valuable learning experience.

PS removing glass - as you are scrapping the door it is easiest to cut through the rails and stiles and tap and pull the woodwork away from the glass, rather than trying to take the glass out of the frame. Remove beads of course, but you may find the beads on one side are machined on to the stiles/rails so won't come off.
 
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