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Apparently 300 cars a day (all cars) catch fire in the UK. 7 cars a day out of 10 million in China would indicate that fires are a very small issue and way below ICE fires. I know that lithium fires are potentially more dangerous, but the EVs regularly catching fire simply isn’t supported by the facts.
 
They need to get the output up to cover the fires that are reportedly happening in China (alledged to be 7 cars a day.)
Note I didn't claim any of it to be true but given the Chinese habitual lying and cover ups (think Covid) there's no smoke without fire - pun intended. :ROFLMAO:

https://batteriesnews.com/7-battery...t quarter of,anticipated this in our survey .
You've obviously never needed to test smoke alarms, or you'd know that smoke without fire can be bought in aerosol cans.
 
Apparently 300 cars a day (all cars) catch fire in the UK. 7 cars a day out of 10 million in China would indicate that fires are a very small issue and way below ICE fires. I know that lithium fires are potentially more dangerous, but the EVs regularly catching fire simply isn’t supported by the facts.
Yebbut who knows what is fact and fiction that comes out of China. ;)
 
You've obviously never needed to test smoke alarms, or you'd know that smoke without fire can be bought in aerosol cans.
You've obviously never needed to test smoke alarms, or you'd know that smoke without fire can be bought in aerosol cans.
And you've clearly never heard of the old well known sayings. ;)
 
And you've clearly never heard of the old well known sayings. ;)
If course I've heard it, but I put it in the same category as "the camera never lies" and "things always happen in threes". Nonsense trotted out by people who can't be bothered to think for themselves.
Having said that, I accept that you were using the phrase as a jokey reinforcement to your anti-EV stance - I'm not accusing you of being lazy or incapable of original thought.
 
Apparently 300 cars a day (all cars) catch fire in the UK. 7 cars a day out of 10 million in China would indicate that fires are a very small issue and way below ICE fires. I know that lithium fires are potentially more dangerous, but the EVs regularly catching fire simply isn’t supported by the facts.
A lot of nonsense has been pushed about EV fires (one of the biggest pushing the 'Chinese EV's catch fire (he particularly targeted BYD) on youtube was sprung moaning about the 'fields full of unsold EVs'- turned out they were sold- to a rideshare company that went broke in the middle of the Covid pandemic (surprise surprise- a business model that involved dozens if not hundreds of perfect strangers getting into your car suffers badly in the middle of a pandemic lol)- plus most of the cars shown turned out to be ICE ones LOL
But even if you don't believe the Chinese, US insurance companies released their own figures there- and show that if you are worried about cars catching fire- then your safest option by far was owning an EV, with ICEers in the US catching fire far more often than EVs!!!
1706744774871.png
 
But even if you don't believe the Chinese, US insurance companies released their own figures there- and show that if you are worried about cars catching fire- then your safest option by far was owning an EV, with ICEers in the US catching fire far more often than EVs!!!
while the numbers could well be true they probably don’t tell the whole story.
How many ICE car fires result in a total unrecoverable loss? probably only a small percentage.
How many EV/Hybrid. car fires result in an absolute total loss? probably the vast majority.

That is where there is a vast difference between the two, and that doesn’t address the very different danger of an ICE fire vs the toxic very dangerous gases emitted by an EV/Hybrid battery fire.
 
A lot of nonsense has been pushed about EV fires (one of the biggest pushing the 'Chinese EV's catch fire (he particularly targeted BYD) on youtube was sprung moaning about the 'fields full of unsold EVs'- turned out they were sold- to a rideshare company that went broke in the middle of the Covid pandemic (surprise surprise- a business model that involved dozens if not hundreds of perfect strangers getting into your car suffers badly in the middle of a pandemic lol)- plus most of the cars shown turned out to be ICE ones LOL
But even if you don't believe the Chinese, US insurance companies released their own figures there- and show that if you are worried about cars catching fire- then your safest option by far was owning an EV, with ICEers in the US catching fire far more often than EVs!!!
View attachment 174900
Very surprised by those figures (not questioning them), for petrol they are a lot higher than we get in Europe, our ratio between EV and ICE is about 19:1 that's in the 60s I know nothing about the American equivalent of an MOT but something must be very different with their fleet. Hybrid being the highest doesn't surprise me, obviously there are a lot of different types in this group and I would not expect MHEV to have much of a problem, adding a couple of brick sized 48V batteries and a larger starter motor shouldn't make much difference, with PHEV packaging can be a nightmare trying to fit 2 power trains into one vehicle things get closer together than you would like, routing gets complicated. Pumping a highly flammable fuel with an explosive vapor towards a hot engine is bad enough but mix it up with power cables that get properly hot in confined spaces and a whole load of electronic gizmos while reducing any kind of crumple zone to a minimum - what could go wrong.

At this stage if I was in a position to buy a new car I'd be looking for a self charging hybrid. Smallish batteries and a huge gain in efficiency without any issue looking for charging points, a good compromise while development of vehicles and infrastructure continues.

I would really like information on when the different types catch fire if anybody has found any.
 
As far as I know, there is no equivalent of the MOT in the states. They have emissions tests, I believe, in some or all states, but that's about it. Have spent a short time in North Carolina, I can tell you that I've seen vehicles on the road that wouldn't come close to passing an MOT.
 
If course I've heard it, but I put it in the same category as "the camera never lies" and "things always happen in threes". Nonsense trotted out by people who can't be bothered to think for themselves.
Having said that, I accept that you were using the phrase as a jokey reinforcement to your anti-EV stance - I'm not accusing you of being lazy or incapable of original thought.
A misconception on your part as I don't have an anti EV stance at all.
It is true however that if I needed to replace my car at this moment in time it definitely wouldn't be with the equivalent EV version at £80k+. When we're further down the development and infrastucture process then my opinion would quite possibly be different. It's nowhere near that yet!
 
A misconception on your part as I don't have an anti EV stance at all.
It is true however that if I needed to replace my car at this moment in time it definitely wouldn't be with the equivalent EV version at £80k+. When we're further down the development and infrastucture process then my opinion would quite possibly be different. It's nowhere near that yet!
Ok, your anti current EV stance. Got it!
 
If trams are an answer, why don't all cities and major towns and have them already? They've been around for 140 years.
Because in many cases auto manufacturers in the 1930s conspired to buy up the tram systems and destroy them. It is well documented.

If they had not done so perhaps things would be very different.

Never underestimate the power of corruption to shape our world.

The fossil fuel companies are still pushing very hard to prevent change and convince everyone that they should keep using oil and gas. They have set up numerous grass roots campaigns and paid influencers to use gas hobs/ovens without clearly stating who is behind the campaigns.

check out climatetown on youtube. Entertaining and informative
 
Ok, your anti current EV stance. Got it!
Nope, let's get this straight.
Only in respect of my own circumstances at this moment in time.

I am not in general anti EV. You and anyone else can buy as many EVs as you wish if they meet your needs and satisfy your (apparent) belief that they are a solution to the climate issues. I'm keeping an open mind on that as there are many unaswered questions.
 
Nope, let's get this straight.
Only in respect of my own circumstances at this moment in time.

I am not in general anti EV. You and anyone else can buy as many EVs as you wish if they meet your needs and satisfy your (apparent) belief that they are a solution to the climate issues. I'm keeping an open mind on that as there are many unaswered questions.
Most sensible comment on this thread 👍
 
Very surprised by those figures (not questioning them), for petrol they are a lot higher than we get in Europe, our ratio between EV and ICE is about 19:1 that's in the 60s I know nothing about the American equivalent of an MOT but something must be very different with their fleet. Hybrid being the highest doesn't surprise me, obviously there are a lot of different types in this group and I would not expect MHEV to have much of a problem, adding a couple of brick sized 48V batteries and a larger starter motor shouldn't make much difference, with PHEV packaging can be a nightmare trying to fit 2 power trains into one vehicle things get closer together than you would like, routing gets complicated. Pumping a highly flammable fuel with an explosive vapor towards a hot engine is bad enough but mix it up with power cables that get properly hot in confined spaces and a whole load of electronic gizmos while reducing any kind of crumple zone to a minimum - what could go wrong.

At this stage if I was in a position to buy a new car I'd be looking for a self charging hybrid. Smallish batteries and a huge gain in efficiency without any issue looking for charging points, a good compromise while development of vehicles and infrastructure continues.

I would really like information on when the different types catch fire if anybody has found any.
The US has some pretty lax rules if some of the vehicles seen on utube are any indication (some states seem to have no inspections at all, far from the UK position (and most of Australia)- driving around in 'trucks' (it is REALLY necessary to use a huge pickup with dual rear tyres as a family saloon???) with rusted through frames, holes in the bodywork you can literally put your fist through without fear of getting tetanus lol and only replacing steering/brake/suspension parts when they literally break in half...

Imagine these passing an MOT!!!!
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As for the data on EV fires- well insurance companies have put out data (and they should probably be the best source as they are likely to be the ones paying out... (the chart I showed above comes from this one- forgot to put the link in doh)
Gas vs. Electric Car Fires [2024 Findings] | AutoinsuranceEZ.com

From here in Australia

Australian Swinburne Uni

EV Fire Safe- research group funded by the Australian DOD

Firefighting lithium fires presents new challenges true- but already many EVs are changing over to far less dangerous chemistries eg BYD uses LiFePO4 (LFP) technology, rather than the LiPO used by Tesla in all of their high performance vehicles (LiPO has a slightly better weight to power ratio, meaning it has a slightly longer range than LFP, but LFP is far safer)
Thermal runaway in LFP cells

ironically the Tesla 3's made outside the US use BYD 'Blade' cells ie LFP, rather than their own LiPO cells!!!

Like everyone else- firefighters are going to have to change their equipment and training to meet new challenges... much like they did when hirise buildings became more common, and again when 'mega sky scrapers' did

From the US NTSB...
Safety Risks to Emergency Responders from Lithium-Ion Battery Fires in Electric Vehicles
(it is an older report from 2020, afaik they have a newer one coming out late this year sometime (hopefully) and is a rather long 80 pages but the summaries have much of the major points in them)
 
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Firefighting lithium fires presents new challenges true- but already many EVs are changing over to far less dangerous chemistries eg BYD uses LiFePO4 (LFP) technology,
“new challenges” Humm advice is “Evacuate the area” “let the battery burn out in a controlled way”
It is true that LiFePO4 don’t suffer as many thermal run away events as regular lithium batteries. It is false that they do not have thermal run away events.

I haven’t seen any pier reviewed papers comparing the 2 technologies,
only claims that they don’t catch fire, false
and that they are safe false, safer yes probably true,

They may even produce less toxic gases when burning (they can and do burn). They might even be able to be extinguished, no reliable information on the subject, but that presupposes that you can access the battery, something that is virtually impossible in an EV or PEV
 
“new challenges” Humm advice is “Evacuate the area” “let the battery burn out in a controlled way”
It is true that LiFePO4 don’t suffer as many thermal run away events as regular lithium batteries. It is false that they do not have thermal run away events.

I haven’t seen any pier reviewed papers comparing the 2 technologies,
only claims that they don’t catch fire, false
and that they are safe false, safer yes probably true,

They may even produce less toxic gases when burning (they can and do burn). They might even be able to be extinguished, no reliable information on the subject, but that presupposes that you can access the battery, something that is virtually impossible in an EV or PEV
Which was exactly the same advice given when hirise buildings first started appearing... evacuate and let it burn (as they simply didn't have the equipment at the time to fight them)- now they have hilift sprayer trucks (capable of going up to incredible heights, with nobody up the top, just a remote controlled 'water cannon' and trucks with higher pressure pumps that can pump hoses up internal stairways that earlier trucks simply didn't have the pressure to lift water that high... (many rural firefighting trucks here still only have the low pressure/high volume pumps fitted to them- maximum lift height is only about twenty metres...)
1706869371238.png

(that one can go up 113m or over 35 storeys!!!)
To give you an idea- a 10cm hose lifting water up 100m has to lift a tonne of water- and it literally won't spray at all- it would just lift it and sit in the end of the hose- to pump out high volumes at high pressure at those heights requires truly impressive pumps with incredibly tight tolerances- and a LOT of power to drive them...

New challenges, new equipment- and until that is rolled out- evac and let it burn...
.

LFP don't catch fire, the worst I have ever heard of personally (and we have been using them here in Australia since 2008 when they first started being imported into the country here) is swelling and drying out- they are completely different to LiPO (li-ion cells) aka phone and some EVs (mostly Tesla use them, which is why their range is longer) and some Fords- their cables can melt (the current output of LFP is huge) and they can suffer thermal runaway, but it rarely if ever leads to an external fire as it dries out the internal electrolyte in them and that stops the chemical reaction... (and ruins the battery, but thats unimportant lol)

It isn't as if LFP is exactly a new technology- it is only new to 'some' of the general public- like I said, the cells I use here myself have been on the market here since 2008- and the company making them took half a decade before they had an importer into Australia after first marketing them... (2002)
Maybe you consider something two decades old 'new', but it isn't...

(many of the BYD 'fires' weren't from their battery packs, but from their controllers for the motors, after a flood of 'fake' power mosfets hit the markets with massively undersized dies internally that overheated and exploded- often going short circuit and causing huge currents to flow through the power cables, which could set fire to nearby plastics (an issue with many modern ICE cars as well...)

Can you link to an actual LiFePO4 battery catching fire- from the battery itself??? (not a li-ion- a LFP) because I haven't heard or can find a single case- obviously you have something to show this actually happens???)
 
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I'm not an advocate for EVs (at least not in their current form) but the whole scare tactic that is going around seems like something people with an agenda want to push. Let's not forget we are driving around in cars filled with highly flammable liquid in a tank hanging under the car. I'm quite amazed we don't have more accidents than we do.

I've seen a whole lot of ICE car fires that have burnt the car out completely and torched the tarmac underneith to the point it needs resurfacing. Sure they can probably be extinguished more easily but that assumes the firebrigade gets there in time, and then you have a whole load of petrol or diesel running off into the environment or trashing the road.

Diesel spills will require road resurfacing Highways England talks about the importance of preventing diesel spills - Moving On

search 'petrol station fire' if you want to see the current safety issues with have with ICE cars. Seems much less likely to me that a charging station fire is not going to cause anywhere near as much of a problem.

Also have to take into account the transport of petrol, as I would imagine a petrol tanker fire is not going to be much fun to deal with. But these things are often forgotten in the ICE vs EV debates
 
I've recovered several 'burnt out' ICE vehicles driving the tilt-tray or the ute and car trailer- and they can be just as lethal as any ICE fire...
This one from a few years back the passenger actually got out with their clothes charred... (must have been a while ago- thats the old car trailer, I bought another brand new one in 2019
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There's one sitting on the side of the road into town that required the driver to go to hospital after smoke inhalation after it caught fire- I'll take a pic tomorrow if its still there
Considering that it is already proven that ICE cars catch fire far more often than BEVs, purely on a safety aspect, an EV would be the better option lol
 
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