Edge jointing without a cambered blade.

[Philly]

Hi All,
As most of my tools are in storage I hit a problem when edge jointing some boards for a table top. Some of the boards had edges that were in wind. And I only had my LA Jack and a block plane to hand. My LA Jack has a straight sharpened blade (with the corners knocked off) so was no good for my usual (Charlesworth method) means of removing wind. So I came up with this….
Using a square mark out the areas that need removing on the edge. Then using a block plane remove the high spots with partial (i.e not full edge width) shavings. A full shaving from my LA Jack gave a true edge. Result!
Maybe not the best way to work but it worked!
Hope this is of help
Philly
Who really, really wants to move into his new workshop

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Philly,

I'm intrigued to hear that you usually adopt David Charlesworth's method when jointing boards.

I have David's book "Furniture-making Techniques, volume two" and I have read his description several times. I've never bought into the technique of using a cambered blade, planing the boards hollow or planing one board at a time.

The way I was taught at school back in the 1950s was the way described in "Planecraft". That is you put the two boards together with the face sides outwards, use a long plane with the blade honed square and plane as if you were planing the boards hollow so as to ensure that you don't curve the boards at the ends. By planing the two boards together you cancel out any lack of squareness.

Over the years I have found this method foolproof and I just can't fathom how David's method is better or even as good.

David's method obviously works for him (he has excellent work to prove it) and I go along with most of the other stuff he has written. But I just can't see the benefit of his board jointing method.

I'd be interested to hear why you normally adopt his method and why you think it works best.

Paul

 

[Chris Knight]

Paul,
Not Philly but I use the cambered blade approach too. Mainly because it works in all situations, not just jointing boards. Also if jointing long boards of different widths, I find it a hassle to clamp them in the vice or on the bench in such a way that the two edges to be planed are more or less together. This is especially true when using the top of the bench and a birdsmouth planing stop as I prefer to for many boards.

Where I do use the twin board approach is when planing thin stock eg for drawer bottoms, when it is difficult to balance a plane on a board only one quarter inch thick.

 

[Alf]

Yet again, wot Chris said. I have a total inability to clamp two boards together in a vice without them slipping. The idea of having to get it right after jointing the edges almost perfectly, only to find there's still a fraction to do and therefore having to put them back in the vice... Aargh, life's too short. I will match joint thin stuff, like Chris, but usually on a shooting board.

Fwiw I was doing it before I'd even heard of DC (Gasp! :shock: ) so it's not even groupie-ness! :lol:

But back to Philly... Glad it worked, but sounds like someone didn't sufficiently think through what to put in their ready-use kit... [-X :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Philly]

Paul
I have never really got on with the "clamp two boards together" method-I just seem to keep taking shavings forever. David Charlesworths books describe his method but I recommend watching his second DVD-he explains and demonstrates the method and all it's points quite clearly (maybe I'm thick, but watching the dvd made it "click" even though I'd read the articles many times )
Alf
Yeah, also left my sharpening gear packed away (somewhere! :roll: )
Pleeease let me move soon! :lol:
Cheers
Philly

 

[Chris Knight]

Yeah, also left my sharpening gear packed away (somewhere! :roll: )

There's always the Axminster catalogue - online too if you packed your copy.. :wink:

 

[Paul Chapman]

Thanks Chris, Alf and Philly for those prompt replies. Three more good woodworkers who use the technique, so there must be something in it :-k

Guess I'll have to watch his video some time.

Hope you get into your workshop soon, Philly :wink:

Paul

 

[MikeW]

Oh, I dunno. I've always used a straight-edged plane to joint with. It was how I was taught.

Single board is my preference, but I have and do use multiple boards at times. Putting two boards evenly into a vise is simple--for someone use to it, but it doesn't seem an issue when I show people in classes...

But I don't use a block plane to knock off high spots--but nice to know it works, Philly. So thanks for the tip.

One of these days I guess I need to find someone proficient with using a cambered blade to joint with to show me how. Never could get the hang of it, at least consistently. I don't know why it worked some and not most of the time. I can actually explain it to others, though, and some have gotten the hang of it. But I don't know if they have stuck with it and gotten consistent results over time.

Perhaps the real problem for me lies between my ears--I still can't understand why using a straight edged-plane to produce a square, straight edge is less efficient or not faster than using a cambered blade.

Maybe I should break down and actually purchase a Charlesworth book or DVD...

Take care, Mike

 

[Philly]

Mike
Hope it comes in handy some day.
I just cannot remove wind from an edge with a straight blade-The edge is straight, yes, but the wind just will not go away. Removing the high parts with a cambered blade just works. Guess I should set my power jointer up properly :lol: (quickly ducks and runs)
Cheers
Philly

 

[Alf]

One of these days I guess I need to find someone proficient with using a cambered blade to joint with to show me how.

My door is always open, Mike. Bring your saw filing kit... :wink:

Oh wait, he said proficient. #-o

Cheers, Alf

 

[MikeW]

One of these days I guess I need to find someone proficient with using a cambered blade to joint with to show me how.

My door is always open, Mike. Bring your saw filing kit... :wink:

Oh wait, he said proficient. #-o

Cheers, Alf

Oh, that would be great! Me thinks you are plenty proficient.

Let's see. If I was able to put together at least an order of 50 saw kits, with workshops provided at a small cost to put them together--and of course on the last day to teach sharpening...it would pay for a trip. At least as long as at each stop I had a place provided to stay...

Maybe even be able to personally deliver a few completed saws. Yep, I could afford the trip.

We've actually though about this to Australia. 3 stops across the country and enough kits and classes.

Ah, the dream of a trip! We've always wanted to go to England. Somewhere we have the location of our family's birthplace there. My adopted name is Wenzloff--the birth name is Reed...

Take care, Mike

 

[Philly]

Mike
My house is yours (wherever that happens to be :wink: ) Be a lot of fun!
Had another thought-I bought a jointer fence from Veritas a little while ago-need to dig it out from a box somewhere. :roll: Maybe that would allow me to joint with a straight blade AND remove wind. Anyone with one tried it??
Cheers
Philly

 

[MikeW]

It would be a great trip!

I have a Stanley #386 and so use it for some tasks. I have used the magnetic LV fence at a woodworking show and it works well.

My feeling is that if someone who actually has their tools unpacked :lol: and has a method that works for them, all else is a novelty or simply another method to teach, recommend to others, or personal enrichment. That's the line I feed myself as regards using a cambered edge for jointing. Probably it would be more accurate I hate not being able to master something I attempt :roll:

The issue of jointing is akin to sharpening--but without as many choices. The main problem is simply to pick a method, believe in it and practice. If there remains an obstacle to getting positive results, try another method. An attached fence requires less attention as to the squareness and allows one to concentrate more on the result.

Which is probably why I like an attached fence--I don't have to think as much :lol: When shaping angled edges, the fences with a pivotable fence make it an easy task. This is what I do use my fence the most on.

Take care, Mike

 

[Alf]

Mike,

Effendi, my tent is your tent; my camel, your camel; my saw sharpening mountain, your saw shar- erm, scrub that last bit... 'Course it's easy to say when you live in the back of beyond and thus probably perfectly safe from ever having your camel called upon. Be very cool if something could be worked out though. 8)

Cheers, Alf

 

[mr]

Let's see. If I was able to put together at least an order of 50 saw kits,

Hands up 50 people

 

[Alf]

Or 25 people putting both hands up...?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

Perhaps the real problem for me lies between my ears--I still can't understand why using a straight edged-plane to produce a square, straight edge is less efficient or not faster than using a cambered blade.

Hi Mike,

Well if a Master Craftsman like you doesn't understand it either, I don't feel so bad about myself :wink:

One of the problems about planing one board at a time is that I've seen beginners struggling so much with trying to get one board, let alone two, with a 90 degree edge, that they have just given up. But when they plane the two boards together, they seem to achieve success straight away - and success breeds success.

I suppose it also comes down to how you were taught. People tend to stick with what they know works.

By the way, I have some saws that need sharpening as well :wink: :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Paul

Another vote for Charlesworth and cambered blades here. I don't plane boards to joint them together very often, usually the board is the side of a cabinet or box and I i need a good edge that is perpendicular to the front - the two boards method is not for me :wink:

Bet you guessed I was chuffed to see LV are bringing out a cambered roller for the mkII

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Paul

Another vote for Charlesworth and cambered blades here. I don't plane boards to joint them together very often, usually the board is the side of a cabinet or box and I i need a good edge that is perpendicular to the front - the two boards method is not for me :wink:

Bet you guessed I was chuffed to see LV are bringing out a cambered roller for the mkII

Hi Tony,

You needed an excuse to buy a new tool?? :?

Seriously, I'm impressed with LV's response to customer needs and demands with so many of their products 8)

Paul

 

[Paul Kierstead]

The way I was taught at school back in the 1950s was the way described in "Planecraft".

...

Over the years I have found this method foolproof and I just can't fathom how David's method is better or even as good.

The match planing method only works for glue laminations; if you actually need a precise 90 degree joint, then you must use some other method.

I don't see the two methods as exclusive, and use both regularly (I have a plane set up for each). I find for glue joints that match planing is extremely easy and fast (assuming the boards are ballpark close to start with), but still use the charlesworth method when I need 90. I will admit I am trying to wean myself off the cambered blade though (but not there yet...)