Dust extraction for a tiny workshop.

[HRRLutherie]

I'm in the midst of my first guitar build, and the saw dust is flying. Almost every surface is covered in a good millimetre or two of dust, and the floor rustles with chips and shavings. I also use a twin cartridge dust mask whenever I'm in the workshop, even if I'm just getting something. I'd like to feel a bit safer around the place, and try to stop sawdust from clogging up my tools. As such, I've been looking into cheap (but effective) dust extraction systems. I don't fancy the chip collectors with filter bags, as the hobby ones, such as this one:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-hobby-series-awde5002-extractor-prod886589/

only filter down to 30 microns, which means that it would be capturing the heavy stuff, and just spread the stuff that's actually dangerous (the sub 5 micron stuff). So, I was thinking of getting shop vac (maybe as small as a Henry Hoover) fitted to a cyclone. However, I could spend a bit more, and get something like these:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-numatic-nv750-workshop-vacuum-extractor-prod782719/

Then, I got thinking of CamVacs. Are they any good? Are they too noisy? Since they have 3 filters, would they require a cyclone to keep the chips at bay?

And then, I came across this on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRAPER-40...17?pt=UK_Home_Power_Tools&hash=item43bc3a6e81

Does anybody have experience with this? It claims to have an integral cyclone, but can it's efficiency compare to a standalone unit?

Also, apart from capturing dust at the source, I'd like to also just generally clean the air in the workshop, so that it's not a toxic zone. I was thinking of one of these:

http://www.yandles.co.uk/product.php/section/6496/sn/MICMC100

working in conjunction with one of the systems above. For a workshop the size of mine:

http://i.imgur.com/10hQtNbh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7FuPj2Gh.jpg

Finally, although at the moment, I don't have a planer or thicknesser, I would like them at some point. My router spews out some pretty hefty chips, but should I get an extractor with a 51mm inlet, or one with a 100mm inlet.

Thanks in advance, and sorry about the long post!

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I think you've probably not received a response because this topic has been done to death and very recently on this forum. Rather than just repeat those threads I would encourage you to use the search facility and try key word searches. Literally in the last month there have been 2 or 3 such posters and tons of really useful advice. One things for sure, from a pure health n safety standpoint, you need to deal with that dust

 

[Kalimna]

Regarding the dust, one thing that isnt often mentioned in these threads is that very fine dust suspended in the air can be an explosive mixture, especially given a spark, say, from any number of powered tools we might use.
I too have been reading the dust threads with interest, as I will be updgrading at some point from my axi chip/dust extractor.

Cheers,
Adam

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

spot on. Even really apparently innocuous materials like flour dust carry the same risk if fine enough. Never really understood whats going on there tbh.......very counter intuitive

 

[mqbernardo]

Hi! I was on a boat akeen to yours, it can be tricky comparing specs in these machines as there is no standardized way of measuring them. So, for instance, seldom does a filter that claims a (say) 1 micron filtration tells you if it grabs 99 % of the those particles, or just 95%. Also the testing procedures are not disclosed so one does not to know if data by different manufacturers is directly comparable or not.
Anyway, in the end i opted for Jet 1100A and Jet AFS500. The Jet 1100A (with the fine cartridge filter) will filter down to 1 micron (although i suspect it could be 2 microns, if memory serves me they were advertising 2 microns a while ago) and the air filter suited my workshop area/volume and claims to filter 85 % of 1 micron particles. Seemed like a good combo. Later on i also got a Festool CTL Midi extractor. Got all my needs covered now.

The Jet extractor had some very nice reviews in FWW and was one of the most powerful single phase units around (you do want the extra power to increase dust grabbing at the source, specially since this is a HPLV system), is able to get both chips and dust, it´s not too noisy, providing good air flow and the cherry on the cake is the "vortex cone" ( it´s IIRC a mock-up of Phil Thien baffle separator : http://www.jpthien.com/ ), which Jet claims helps in separating the finest dust from the rest and prolongs the period between filter cleanings - i thought of building one such separators myself, but would have to tool-up just for that and axi had a promo on the extractor + filter package, so i ended up with that. I use the 1100A with my 10-20 drum sander and the improvement over my previous axi AWEDE2 unit is tremendous. Build quality is also super, if you have the cash to spare i highly recommend it. I´m building guitars, FWIW.

HTH,
Miguel.


- edited for (several) typos -

 

[HRRLutherie]

It looks like a good option, but I don't think that it would actually fit in my workshop! I think that until I get a bigger shop, I'm going to have to go with a vacuum style extraction system. What do reckon to be the best system in that class? The Numatic? CamVac? I see that Axminster currently have a sale on the Festool Midi, but would I be getting enough power for my cash?

Thanks for all of the replies so far!

 

[mqbernardo]

what are you main dust producing machines?

 

[HRRLutherie]

At the moment, the only tool I have that spews out a lot of wood is the router, but I plan to get a bandsaw and a tablesaw in the next year or two, and a planer/thicknesser after that.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

If you get the Axminster catalogue, there is an information guide at the start of the dust collection section that documents the recommended flow rates for common situations/machines. That should help you to home in on an appropriately powered dx machine.

But I would bear in mind your expansion goals seriously or you'll be back to the market in a year....expensive!

 

[HRRLutherie]

Does anybody have any experience with the CamVacs, or the Numatic NVD750? They look like very versatile setups, and they'd just about squeeze into my shop.

Also, since both the Numatic and the CamVac have multiple filters (the CamVac has 3), could I use them without a separater, and not have to be constantly changing filter?

 

[HRRLutherie]

Oh, and I dug out my 2011 Axminster Catalogue, and it has a small information guide, giving dust extractors the following ratings:

1 - Chippings only
2 - Chippings and sawdust (with fine filter option fitted)
3 - Chippings, sawdust and sanding dust
4 - Chippings, sawdust, sanding dust and MDF dust

The Numatic NVD750 achieved a "perfect" 4, so it looks promising.

 

[Shrubby]

I would take hobby ratings with a pinch a salt.
Read WIS23
Matt

 

[RogerS]

But what are you going to attach it to? You say that you only have a router. Yet your bench is millimetres in dust. Either that is an awful lot of routing or you're doing something else to generate the dust...ie sanding. Power sanding with a ROS or hand sanding. If the latter then you're dust extractor isn't going to help much.

For what it's worth, my Camvac is used for the dust generators......and they are serious dust generators. Drum sander. Linisher type sander. Table saw. If i can be bothered then I'll use it when I use the router table but TBH the router generates more in the way of coarse chippings than dust. Anyway, I only need to give the Camvac outer bag a shake to remove the dust there. never replaced either of the other two filters as never needed.

 

[mqbernardo]

At the moment, the only tool I have that spews out a lot of wood is the router, but I plan to get a bandsaw and a tablesaw in the next year or two, and a planer/thicknesser after that.

Hi again!
My advice comes from a noob point of view, so take it as it is ... bandsaw less so, but tablesaws and planers are real offenders, and a planer (i don´t own one) should produce as much chips as dust. For a router (or a ROS), i guess a shop vac would be ideal as it´s much more mobile - my festool connected to the ROS, coupled with abranet discs really is a wonderful solution.
For the router (which i seldom use) my best bet (or least worse... at least for guitar work, i only used it to cut the binding ledges) would be to use it in a separate room (if you have one, if not near a corner), wear a decent mask and have someone come by and hold the hose as close as possible to it while you work. I never used a camvac (is it a HVLP unit?), but i´m sure it would work too - but that thing is noisy! If you go the camvac/Numatic route i guess a cyclone/separator of some sort would be advisable.

Regarding classifications/ratings, what you really want to know is HP, airflow, pressure (if possible) and filtration capacity. From here you can compute the best solution for your needs. Bill Pentz site as lots of good info, but it´s a tough read and i find it somehow convoluted, but it´s surely advisable read.

Good luck!

 

[HRRLutherie]

There's a lot of dust because I've been routing MDF (for templates).

With regards to chip collection, I'm thinking of purchasing a shroud for my Hitachi M12VE, which I could then attach to the extractor.

Are there any downsides to the NVD750, or the CamVac as allround machines? Can they do dust collection as well as chop collection, or am I dreaming?

The Festool is pretty, but really only the Midi is in my price range, and its reported airflow is half that of the Numatic. Or do I have to take manufacturers specs with a pinch of salt?

Again, thanks for all the replies

 

[mqbernardo]

i bet the Numatic can handle chip and dust collection, problem with it (IMVHO, others might know better) is that it has a modest airflow, so the suction volume at your tool-end will be also modest, meaning that some chip/dust could fall out of its area of intervention. Not ideal for a machine like a large drum dander, but it should be more than adequate for your router.