Drill Press Repair

[SteveF]

done a bit of searching on here but not many comments, doesn't seem a popular topic
I need a new bench drill
I have a solid old cast one and would not change it if was running true (spindle taper is out by .7mm)
so it is time for a modern one
budget is £500 but like anyone would prefer not to spend that much
who has what? how happy are you with your choice?
preferably with keyless chuck..I know some people are against this option

Steve

 

[Eric The Viking]

What brand is your "old drill"?

Are you absolutely sure your it can't be repaired/fettled?

I agree that .7mm is a lot, but is it the quill (the bit that goes up and down), or the male morse taper that attaches to the back of the chuck? You might find that just a new MT2 to Jacobs taper adapter will do it. I put a new Rohm chuck on mine and it's transformed it.

I say this because, unless you spend quite a lot, new drills all come from China and the quality can be pants. I've got a Clarke, bought about 15 years ago. It's OK, but it is not a precision device really. I changed it under warranty once, because of runout. Compared to one of the older British makes it really is rubbish. I get by with it, but it would be a challenge for precision work.

That said, it's almost always jobber drills which are the biggest problem. Cheap ones are horrible. I keep the bin right under the drill table, so I'm not tempted to keep the nasty ones (satisfying "clang" when they hit the bottom). I have had similar problems with cheap Forstners, too - very hard sometimes to get them running true.

SKF and Dormer and expensive Bosch (long-series) all the way for jobber drills, and Colt and Fisch for wood drills (including Forstners),. The Axminster own-brand Forstners sold individually are OK, but relatively expensive. I bought a boxed set of their TiN-coated Forstners a while ago (I think their supplier has changed since) and they have been a disappointment.

E.

PS: there's shedloads of stuff on here about pillar drills going back at least ten years - are you sure your searches have been working properly?

 

[mbartlett99]

I had a similar thing going on a few months back - cheap crap everywhere or super expensive. Ended up with a Jet 15JDP from Axminster it was a second for £450 but they've got them on for £650 right now. Very happy with it especially for woodworking and its built like a brick s**thouse.

 

[SteveF]

What brand is your "old drill"?

Are you absolutely sure your it can't be repaired/fettled?

I agree that .7mm is a lot, but is it the quill (the bit that goes up and down), or the male morse taper that attaches to the back of the chuck? You might find that just a new MT2 to Jacobs taper adapter will do it. I put a new Rohm chuck on mine and it's transformed it.

I say this because, unless you spend quite a lot, new drills all come from China and the quality can be pants. I've got a Clarke, bought about 15 years ago. It's OK, but it is not a precision device really. I changed it under warranty once, because of runout. Compared to one of the older British makes it really is rubbish. I get by with it, but it would be a challenge for precision work.

That said, it's almost always jobber drills which are the biggest problem. Cheap ones are horrible. I keep the bin right under the drill table, so I'm not tempted to keep the nasty ones (satisfying "clang" when they hit the bottom). I have had similar problems with cheap Forstners, too - very hard sometimes to get them running true.

SKF and Dormer and expensive Bosch (long-series) all the way for jobber drills, and Colt and Fisch for wood drills (including Forstners),. The Axminster own-brand Forstners sold individually are OK, but relatively expensive. I bought a boxed set of their TiN-coated Forstners a while ago (I think their supplier has changed since) and they have been a disappointment.

E.

PS: there's shedloads of stuff on here about pillar drills going back at least ten years - are you sure your searches have been working properly?

from the best research i managed it is a wandess(whatton & sons)
i guess 40 odd yrs old or more
i think it is an oddball when it comes to dismantling
there is no slot in quill
the chuck \ taper is jt33 from what i recall
the taper I assume is attached in the quill with a couple of bearings
it does not at basic investigation seem to be just a short taper, and also is threaded to assist chuck removal
the taper is where I am seeing the runout using dial indicator

Steve

 

[SteveF]

I had a similar thing going on a few months back - cheap rubbish everywhere or super expensive. Ended up with a Jet 15JDP from Axminster it was a second for £450 but they've got them on for £650 right now. Very happy with it especially for woodworking and its built like a brick s**thouse.

I did see that they was on offer
I will compare with the slightly cheaper axi trade when i get a chance
was just wondering what else was out there
I also wonder if i should move things around and go for a floorstander

Steve

 

[sunnybob]

From recent experience...
you want a table with a rack and pinion adjustment.
You DEFINITELY want more than 50 mm depth movement.
You need to accept that some remedial work will be required.

 

[mbartlett99]

I didn't look too close at the Trade drills when I went to the High Wycombe store (I wasn't even looking at drills) but they seemed pretty nice and beefy. I've one of their Trade bandsaws and there's a fair amount of cast iron in that, finish is good too.

I was impressed with the Jets unusually large table and the large depth - great for woodworking - especially being used to metalworking gear where you just don't get that. I had been hanging out for a used Meddings/Fobco but the good ones seem to be going up in price and didn't want to spend ages fixing up a crappy one.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I like mine (it's an older version of the CDP352F, (CSDP351F) but has a light and 90 deg table tilt), but it's presently not with the other woodworking tools which is a nuisance. Once in a blue moon I do put some large object on it, and then I'm grateful for the extra height adjustment.

The biggest nuisance is keeping the table square. (95% of all woodworking drilling I do is at right angles to the stock). So personally I'd steer clear of the "radial" type designs, as it's one more thing to slip out of line. I can't imagine using the slots on the base to mount anything, but I have had the table vertical, drilling wiring holes in dolls house components. It's horribly difficult to align though used that way.

With the benefit of hindsight, if you could get "robust and well engineered but no movements" I'd probably go for that instead of a tilting table. You can always pack wedges under the workpiece or use a tilting vice.

Whatever you do, make sure you get one that lets you unscrew the handles individually: I very often find they get in the way of the workpiece. The ones that have them as a one-piece moulding are daft, and anyway they are too short when you need to exert significant pressure.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

This apparently is why Meddings stuck to a non adjustable (other than height, obviously) table. They considered it better to have a table guaranteed to to be absolutely square and let the user devise a way of holding anything that had to drilled on an angle, as most work is done square.

 

[sunnybob]

I agree on that. The tilting table is almost impossible to true up. I didnt even want that and didnt know the table did tilt when I bought mine. I would weld it stuck if I could work out a way of getting perfect square to the drill bit.

 

[heimlaga]

Hold a little!

A good quality new drill press will cost at least 1000 pounds and anything cheaper is likely to be just as flawed as your old one. With the difference that your old one is flawed due to wear and misstreatment while the new one will be flawed due to careless manufacturing.
That isn't much of a gain is it.
Over and over again I have found that flaws due to wear and bad treatment are a lot easier to repair than flaws due to careless manufacturing.

When I bought my Arboga drill press the quill was badly damaged. Apparently the vandalism had happened very early in it's life and after that nobody had wanted to use it much. Mechanically it was like new everywhere else. Once I had repaired the quill I essentially had a new 4000 euro drill press.

The quill shaft with the female taper in it is normally made from unhardened material. Some pretty ordinary shaft steel. Around here I know several machinists who are able to turn such a quill shaft and ream the taper. I am pretty sure there are such machinists in your area too.
I rekon such a job may cost around 250 pounds.
Then you need a few new bearings that may cost 50 pounds. You also need to spend a weekend of your own time. 200 pounds free from tax and commuting costs is a pretty good reward for a weekend's work in your own hobby workshop isn't it!
After that you have a 1000 pound drill press instead of a 500 pound drill press. That would be great wouldn't it.

Just my sduggestion.

 

[Lons]

What Eric said Steve, there's quite a lot of previous discussion on pillar drills with the usual opinions.

I waited and put up with my crap ones until I found a used Meddings which although not one of the early models is rock solid and everything I need. Only paid £150 with a known history and i wouldn't part with it for 3 times that amount or definitely wouldn't swap for a chiwanese model whatever brand name it has stuck on.

Worth the wait or even better fix yours or pay someone to do it for you imo

 

[Mark A]

I own an Axminster trade drill. A month after buying it we sold our house and it remained in storage for three years. Now it's finally set up and usable, I can't tell if there's a small degree of runout on the spindle. It's difficult as the external faces of the chuck and spindle visibly wobble, yet the chuck's jaws appear to be true. I'll need a DTI to check, though it's several months out of warranty so I doubt Axminster will care. It's seen maybe 30 minutes of use in total.



Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[SteveF]

maybe I should start a new thread?
i did attempt to dismantle
a few pics

I have removed grubscrew and bolt through end
not sure what else holds in place

the offending article (taper)
3 screws removed from this plate
the 2 holes above appear to be empty
the thread ejects the chuck (nut removed)
the taper almost looks like it is separate part but no slot in quill to eject (i suspect would be easy fix if it was removeable)

allen bolt seems to server little purpose but removed
there is a bolt below spring box (just visible)
the round knob on spring box is lifted to release all tension

spring box showing end of spline

sorry upside down
2 grub screw removed from pulley
something else is holding this on
it moves 1\2" but can feel it hits a stop
the spline sildes up through this and I can see no key

anyone any ideas how to proceed

Steve

 

[MusicMan]

"allen bolt seems to server little purpose but removed"

You see that the piece in which the bolt is mounted is split. This bolt is there to squeeze the piece (narrow the slit) ... and hence control runout . The bolt/screw below this may serve the same function, I can't see clearly on the image whether it is another pinch bolt or something else such as a lubricating nozzle.

 

[MusicMan]

Hold a little!

A good quality new drill press will cost at least 1000 pounds and anything cheaper is likely to be just as flawed as your old one. With the difference that your old one is flawed due to wear and misstreatment while the new one will be flawed due to careless manufacturing.
That isn't much of a gain is it.
Over and over again I have found that flaws due to wear and bad treatment are a lot easier to repair than flaws due to careless manufacturing.

When I bought my Arboga drill press the quill was badly damaged. Apparently the vandalism had happened very early in it's life and after that nobody had wanted to use it much. Mechanically it was like new everywhere else. Once I had repaired the quill I essentially had a new 4000 euro drill press.

The quill shaft with the female taper in it is normally made from unhardened material. Some pretty ordinary shaft steel. Around here I know several machinists who are able to turn such a quill shaft and ream the taper. I am pretty sure there are such machinists in your area too.
I rekon such a job may cost around 250 pounds.
Then you need a few new bearings that may cost 50 pounds. You also need to spend a weekend of your own time. 200 pounds free from tax and commuting costs is a pretty good reward for a weekend's work in your own hobby workshop isn't it!
After that you have a 1000 pound drill press instead of a 500 pound drill press. That would be great wouldn't it.

Just my sduggestion.

+1 to all of the above. I have an Arboga drill/mill for metalworking and it is an amazing machine. The drill-only version has a similar reputation, built for precision.

There is another alternative. I spent years with a Draper table model drill, not a bad make and not that cheap, probably £250-£300 today. The runout was always awful (despite adjusting that pinch bolt at the quill exit), it was noisy and unpleasant to use, and I left it on fixed medium speed as it was too much of a pain to change the belts.

I finally sold it and replaced it with an Axminster AW19FM morticer bought from a member here. This used to be called a trade model and now called a hobby model but at the robust end, (£576 new). I added a drill chuck extension (e.g. http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-dr ... ers-400287 but got one from Charnworth that fitted my morticer) and now I have a precise drill with XY table and clamps built in, ... AND a morticer. I haven't missed the drill at all. Runout is minute, aided by the drill chick adaptor which runs in a plain bushing at the bottom of the assembly, which keeps it tight and square. The point is that there is no quill. The control lever moves the whole motor+drill assembly up and down, on a very stiff and solid dovetail.

The downside is that it is fixed speed. The motor is quiet so probably an induction, so maybe an inverter could be used for speed control - I don't know. However, it drills all the sizes I commonly want in wood, and I would only want a slower speed for metal. For that I have the Arboga, but the morticer is a good alternative for a wood-only workshop.

The suggestion of replacing a drill by a morticer came from a forum member; sorry I don't recall who it was, but thanks to them!

Keith

 

[SteveF]

I have edited pic
i couldnt work out the slit bolt as it is low down and almost where the weld is
the other bolt to the left goes up into the spring housing

 

[deema]

For most drills I’ve played with to remove the quill you would:

1. Put the cover back on the spring to retain it. Somewhere around the spring holder there will be a screw / grub screw. Holding the spring holder firmly undo the screw / grub screw and allow the spring holder to then rotate to remove all of the tension in the spring. Now remove the spring and spring holder.

2. The spindle may now come out by pulling gently on the capstan (arms that take the drill up and down). Alternatively you will need to remove the capstan. This is normally held on by either a roll pin that needs knocking out or by a grub screw (usually two, one on top of the other)

3. When removing the up / down spindle make sure you have firm hold of the quill. Once the cog on the spindle is free from the quill the quill should drop out.

Good luck

 

[SteveF]

the tension in spring is released
the plunger releases it for you...handy as I was scared of that part
I will remove spring in case there is a screw behind it
the plunger seems to have a nut at its base so maybe needs removing
I did tug on the capstan but only minor movement
I removed the grub screw, maybe there is another in the hole
i also removed the bolt from the capstan end
I wondered if the spindle in the capstan comes out the spring end

Steve

p.s. sadly I have a need for a drill so this won't get a whole lot more time before it is scrapped, which is a shame for an old cast iron machine

 

[Lons]

I finally sold it and replaced it with an Axminster AW19FM morticer bought from a member here. Keith

Great to hear the morticer is giving good service Keith. I have regretted selling on a few occasions but really used it so little that I couldn't justify keeping it.