Dovetail Saw vs B&Q Tenon Saw

[HRRLutherie]

Hi everyone

I'm just getting into woodworking and want to learn the fine art of dovetailing as early as possible. I've got a few small projects in mind that would require dovetails. I already have access to a cheap hardened point tenon saw and was wondering if (at this early stage) a dovetail saw is really worth the £50 Veritas are asking for the particular one I'm looking at. Also, if I did get a dovetail saw, should I go for the 14tpi or the 20tpi, considering I will be cutting a wide variety of softwoods and hardwoods in different widths. I will not be buying a second dovetail saw, so which one is the best all rounder?

Thanks in advance

 

[HRRLutherie]

Anybody?

 

[adidat]

i would imagine a cheap saw like that will make your hand saw after some use. i invested the money in a veritas as i new it was a comfortable saw that would last my whole career and then some (if used properly and cared for). a hard point saw will become useless after a while, where as a veritas saw is re sharpen-able.

i dont think you will be disappointed. i cant comment on the TPI issue.

adidat

 

[marcros]

what sized boards are you likely to use- 20tpi is probably a bit fine for thick boards. Personally, I think you would be better to practice and find the limitations of the kit that you have rather than worry about another saw.

If you end up cutting a lot of dovetails, you may well buy a second saw- one cross cut and one rip pattern!

 

[HRRLutherie]

I really don't know what kind of size stock I'll be cutting. I'm popping down to the lumberyard tomorrow to collect some wood for my first few projects. Unfortunately, I see myself spending more money than I would want to on wood as I do not have the facilities to mill it. Hopefully this place will accommodate my needs.

By the way, if this place turns out as a waste of time, does anyone here know any good timber merchants in North London?

 

[wcndave]

If you don't find any in north london, south london hardwwods in croydon is excellent.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

In general, harder woods and smaller sizes work better with higher toothcounts, softer woods and larger sizes with smaller toothcounts. So as a sort of 'rule of thumb', 3/8" oak might be best with about 20 tpi, 1" redwood about 14 tpi - but that's not set in tablets of stone. My dovetail saw is a 15 tpi, and gets used for everything.

Any of the products of Veritas, Pax 1776, Lie-Nielsen, Adria or the bespoke makers such as Mike Wenzloff and Two Lawyers Toolworks will give very satisfactory service. If you drop on a straight-bladed sharp secondhand one, that will do just as well; careful with Ebay though - you can get some very fine saws, but may have to do some blade straightening, cleaning and sharpening before you can put them into service.

 

[HRRLutherie]

Do you reckon at my level, though, that I would reallly benefit from a £45+ saw?

I suspect I'll be cutting more hardwood than softwood, but also want a saw that that will do everything. Will a dovetail saw with 20tpi cut through 1"+ boards?

Thanks for all the info so far, this really is a great source!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

If you're getting serious about 'proper' woodworking, then it may pay to buy a good tool - you'll only need to buy it once, but it will last the rest of your life. How much to pay is, of course, a wholly personal thing.

A 20 tpi saw will cut 1" hardwood, just a bit more slowly than a coarser saw. A 15 tpi saw will cut 1/4" softwood, but may not be as clean-cutting as a finer-toothed saw. In the end, there's no right answer. (If I ever won the lottery - unlikely since I never buy a ticket - I'd have one saw 15tpi rip, one 15 tpi crosscut, one 20 tpi rip and one 20 tpi crosscut. And a rackful of tenon and carcase saws. As it is, I've got one 15tpi rip, and so far I've got by.)

 

[HRRLutherie]

Just got home from the Timber Merchants. Really nice guys, seemed pretty well priced (although I really don't know what I'm talking about) and they had a while-you -wait milling service. I picked up some meranti and pine for a little box.

From the timber they stock, I suspect that it will be mostly 1"+.

I don't mind if it takes longer, as long as the quality of cut in thick stock is as good as it would be with the 14tpi.

Would this be the case?

 

[Harbo]

For dovetails I'd go for 14 or 15 Rip.

For thin stock try the cheapo Razor ones.

Rod

 

[HRRLutherie]

So you mean, for example, a 14tpi + a cheapo gents saw.

However, would using a 20tpi blade on thick stock actually effect the quality of cut?

 

[Harbo]

No the 20 cuts a lot slower.
I think you will find a 14/15/16 fine for most purposes.
I have a 24 Crown which I very rarely use as its just frustrating slow.
The Razors come in a vast choice of TPI and cut very fast - cheap too at about £6 - 8?

Rod

 

[HRRLutherie]

Thanks for all the info.

I think I'm leaning towards the 14tpi dovetail + £10 20tpi gents saw.

But do you think that I would get adequate results on a cheapo tenon saw? Is it a good way to learn?

 

[Harbo]

You said you had access to one - there's only one way to really find out and that's to try it out?

Rod

 

[Unib]

The thing is if you're starting out, if you have cheap tools – like your tenon saw – you're not going to know what is your technique and what is down to the limitations of your tools. If you're starting out why cause yourself any issues with tools – you need all the tool based help you can get! If you can afford it, go for something of recognised quality – if woodwork isn't for you, you're not going to have any problem selling it on either on here or on The Bay.