Peter Evans
Established Member
New vs old is a wandering discussion, because people are coming from different directions. Recently The Traditional Tools Group carried out a comparison between new - Adria, LN, Wenzloff, Gramercy dovetail saws (with old S & J and Groves saws, and a couple of Jap saws thrown in for contrast).
The new saws were preferred by participants, with the LN slightly ahead on points, the handle was the main distinguishing factor - both "feel" and "prejudice"; only 2 testers had a modern saw (LN). The LN was the most familiar handle shape, although people were warming to the Wenzloff, I preferred the Gramercy (I have large hands, and the small handle seems to suit us).
A little ramble of my experience: my all-time favourite dovetail saw handle is an old Taylor Bros (Aus$1) with a beyond redemption blade. The answer is obvious, get a saw kit and make a handle just like it.
Sharpening a dovetail saw is very easy, even for the visually challenged like me. My sight has dropped quite a bit in the last 2 years and I struggle with xcut saws (have just about worked out a strategy and the last saw was ok). All rip saws are easy, dovetail the easiest (using the flip up magnifying lens on the prescription glasses).
It only takes 1 or 2 swipes per tooth, no angles to worry about; no set - I usually do not even run a stone down the blade, the first few cuts of the saw wears off the wire edge, and the filing burr provides enough set; I am working only in dry hardwood.
Like Bugbear I buy saws cheap, typically $zero to Aus$1, max $5, although I have paid Aus$40 for a pristine sharp Atkins #51, xcut and the same for a 31/2ppi Disston #12 Rip in VG condition. I sell a lot of saws for $10-$20 each (cleaned, not sharpened), so in nett terms they probably cost me very little overall. I have sold a few interesting saws for $40+. There should be no need for anyone to need to use a pitted old saw, there are heaps out there just dirty and with surface rust that is easy to get rid of -- and you enventually have to sharpen any saw.
I find the reflection of the edge in the blade very useful, so am now taking user saws and polishing the bejesus out of them. One recent 1950's Disston 22" panel saw 10ppi was in pretty good condition (cost $0), still with the etch, teeth blunt but well shaped, probably never sharpened after someone used it to cut Gyprock (what Americans call drywall I think).
I polished the blade to shiny, getting rid of much of the poorly made etch (this is a modern saw after all, but the 1950's metal was still good); and then I shaped the handle to suit my grip. Now I have a good panel saw to supplement my fine c1900 probably never sharpened Disston 20" 8ppi (came in box of saws and other stuff that cost $1) that is my favourite saw for xcut (getting blunt though, when I am confident of my xcut filing again I will sharpen it up - last time was around 3 years or so ago). I used the great old Disston handle as a model for the modern saw.
After all that I decided to keep (and pay for) the Gramercy and Wenzloff saws that were lent for the demo. So now I use the S & J, Gramercy and Wenzloff saws more or less equally. I am obviously lacking discrimination.
If I found an old Taylor Bros with a good blade, well that would be my choice.
There is a place for modern hardpoint saws, I do have one for rough work that came with a bunch of other saws. One day I was using a nice old Simonds xcut ,with good etch that I had sharpened, to cut up rough, dirty old timber, to the horror of a tool collector who was there (using a beat up old saw of some sort). Well I do have plenty of saws and they owe me little, but conceded I should not use an antique for rough work.
Currently only Wenzloff (on long back order and not cheap, but worth it) makes a quality handsaws so there is no choice but an old saw.
The new saws were preferred by participants, with the LN slightly ahead on points, the handle was the main distinguishing factor - both "feel" and "prejudice"; only 2 testers had a modern saw (LN). The LN was the most familiar handle shape, although people were warming to the Wenzloff, I preferred the Gramercy (I have large hands, and the small handle seems to suit us).
A little ramble of my experience: my all-time favourite dovetail saw handle is an old Taylor Bros (Aus$1) with a beyond redemption blade. The answer is obvious, get a saw kit and make a handle just like it.
Sharpening a dovetail saw is very easy, even for the visually challenged like me. My sight has dropped quite a bit in the last 2 years and I struggle with xcut saws (have just about worked out a strategy and the last saw was ok). All rip saws are easy, dovetail the easiest (using the flip up magnifying lens on the prescription glasses).
It only takes 1 or 2 swipes per tooth, no angles to worry about; no set - I usually do not even run a stone down the blade, the first few cuts of the saw wears off the wire edge, and the filing burr provides enough set; I am working only in dry hardwood.
Like Bugbear I buy saws cheap, typically $zero to Aus$1, max $5, although I have paid Aus$40 for a pristine sharp Atkins #51, xcut and the same for a 31/2ppi Disston #12 Rip in VG condition. I sell a lot of saws for $10-$20 each (cleaned, not sharpened), so in nett terms they probably cost me very little overall. I have sold a few interesting saws for $40+. There should be no need for anyone to need to use a pitted old saw, there are heaps out there just dirty and with surface rust that is easy to get rid of -- and you enventually have to sharpen any saw.
I find the reflection of the edge in the blade very useful, so am now taking user saws and polishing the bejesus out of them. One recent 1950's Disston 22" panel saw 10ppi was in pretty good condition (cost $0), still with the etch, teeth blunt but well shaped, probably never sharpened after someone used it to cut Gyprock (what Americans call drywall I think).
I polished the blade to shiny, getting rid of much of the poorly made etch (this is a modern saw after all, but the 1950's metal was still good); and then I shaped the handle to suit my grip. Now I have a good panel saw to supplement my fine c1900 probably never sharpened Disston 20" 8ppi (came in box of saws and other stuff that cost $1) that is my favourite saw for xcut (getting blunt though, when I am confident of my xcut filing again I will sharpen it up - last time was around 3 years or so ago). I used the great old Disston handle as a model for the modern saw.
After all that I decided to keep (and pay for) the Gramercy and Wenzloff saws that were lent for the demo. So now I use the S & J, Gramercy and Wenzloff saws more or less equally. I am obviously lacking discrimination.
If I found an old Taylor Bros with a good blade, well that would be my choice.
There is a place for modern hardpoint saws, I do have one for rough work that came with a bunch of other saws. One day I was using a nice old Simonds xcut ,with good etch that I had sharpened, to cut up rough, dirty old timber, to the horror of a tool collector who was there (using a beat up old saw of some sort). Well I do have plenty of saws and they owe me little, but conceded I should not use an antique for rough work.
Currently only Wenzloff (on long back order and not cheap, but worth it) makes a quality handsaws so there is no choice but an old saw.
- Rob
