Dealing with Dust for home workshop

[dwfait]

Greetings all. Relatively new to the hobby, and have set up a small workshop in the conservatory. I'm mainly dealing with hand tools (planes and hand saws), but do the occasional cutting on a mitre saw for convenience and plan to get a band saw in the future.

My concern right now is dust and how to deal with it. At the moment, I have a respirator I use and a wet and dry vac to suck up dust and shavings from the floor / surfaces. I know I need to deal with dust in the air though - especially as other people reside here. My question is: should I get an air filter (e.g. a Record Power AC400), or would a more general purpose dust extractor be enough?

 

[dzj]

Get them both.

 

[custard]

Welcome to the forum!

It's sometimes awkward trying to fit woodworking in with domestic arrangements. As well as dust you've got noise, finishing fumes, sharp tools lying around, and general mess. In the ideal world you would have both a means of dust extraction from the tools/machines, plus a means of cleaning the air. But if I had to choose one it would be dealing with dust at source rather than an air filter, especially as an air filter is quite an ugly box that won't blend in comfortably with domestic decor. One of the major developments amongst power tool manufacturers in the past few years has been dealing with dust, companies like Festool have pioneered much higher levels of dust capture at source and these higher standards are spreading throughout the market. You might want to explore a style of woodworking based around a small number of hand held power tools that can be linked to a mobile extractor.

However, unless you have plans to move into a shed or garage in the future I would think carefully about what type of woodworking you want to pursue. If you get too ambitious about the scale of your projects you might be giving yourself too many problems, where as concentrating on compact projects like boxes, spoons, or letter carving means you could go a lot further with hand tools alone. A bandsaw for example is a particularly difficult machine in terms of dust collection and needs quite a big extraction system.

 

[MIGNAL]

Obviously hand tool use doesn't produce the same amount of dust as the power tools. Switching to things like scrapers instead of sandpaper will help enormously as well. Even hand sanding produces a fair amount of dust. If things were on that very simple level I would buy the air filtration system and do any sanding out doors. Either that or use one of the sanding pads that attach to a vacuum hoover. If you are intent on acquiring machines then you have no option but to get adequate dust extraction as well.

 

[CHJ]

Your biggest hazard producer is the powered Mitre saw, a Bandsaw won't be far behind.
If you can arrange for some form of open fronted enclosure for the Mitre saw to help entrain the dust it will help but you do need a very large volume of air movement to entrain any dust it produces for collection.
One person I know who used a scroll saw and sanding equipment in their conservatory had a window light modified to take a 100mm hose out to a chip extractor outside. (high volume air flow, nature handled the dust)

This rough guide to dust control problems may be of interest and help focus on main points.

 

[DiscoStu]

Peter Parfit did some dust measurements and found that hand sanding was the worst for dust production because he had dust extraction on his power tools. You can buy hand sanders that have dust extraction. I think Axminster sell them. I have a workshop with a cheap cyclone (dust deputy) and a £50 Karcher wet and dry vac and that does a good job of keeping the dust down. However I am thinking that a filter is the next move.

 

[Wizard9999]

I know few of us live in an ideal world, I know I don't, but also being in the process of getting started in woodworking I am interested as to what people think the right / best dust extraction is for each machine. Planer thicknessers need chip extraction as far as I know, but beyond that it is not clear to me what is best for each machine. Cyclones are popular, but does it matter if they run off a wet'n'dry vacuum, a more powerful workshop specific vacuum (such as Camvac) or a chip extractor? Would a chip extractor, running through a cyclone with a filter cartridge (rather than the more typical bag) be a universal right answer for big machines? But then you can't reduce the hose from a chip extractor down to power tool hose diameters, so is a separate vacuum type dust collector always required for these? And then, as the OP has asked, where does the air cleaning filter sit in the hierarchy of what is needed / best.

As a newcomer to woodworking I have to say I can understand reasonably well what each tool does, but dust extraction remains somewhat of an impenetrable subject. Maybe there is no 'right' answer, but in order to know what compromises are being made in any particular solution I thnk it would be good to start from the perspective of what the best answer may be.

Terry.

 

[dwfait]

Thanks for all the replies - very useful to digest.

As a newcomer to woodworking I have to say I can understand reasonably well what each tool does, but dust extraction remains somewhat of an impenetrable subject. Maybe there is no 'right' answer, but in order to know what compromises are being made in any particular solution I thnk it would be good to start from the perspective of what the best answer may be.

Terry.

This has been my experience as well. There is a vast variety of dust / chip extractors / filters out there, it's difficult to find information on them at a simple enough level as "this kind is useful for this kind of dust from these machines"

To be honest, I haven't really used my mitre saw since I built my workbench. I much prefer to use hand tools (both for the noise and the feel of working with the wood). And reading the replies - I think a bandsaw is something I could do without if I'm careful about the wood I buy. However, I'm in the middle of a kitchen caddy project for the window sill, made out of 1" thick white oak - even cutting through that with a handsaw generates a fair amount of dust in the air.

I think my first purchase will be an air filter to deal with dust in the air, and possibly a dust extractor later, mainly to get the plane shavings that seem to get everywhere.

Could anyone recommend an air filter, like the record AC400? The room I'm working in is about 25m3.

Edit: Oh, the one 'static' tool I don't think I can do without is a pillar drill - it's high up on my list of things to buy. I'm assuming these don't really produce much more dust / debris as a cordless drill and shouldn't be too much of a problem?

 

[CHJ]

I think my first purchase will be an air filter to deal with dust in the air,

No, first priority is to get yourself a powered air fed respirator. when dust is in the air and awaiting the air cleaner to pick it up, possibly over several hours you are still breathing it in.

Next priority is to remove dust at source. If it's in the air enough to need air cleaning then it's a failure of source removal.

Total Source Removal may not be possible/practical in a home workshop but it should be the main driving force until you can't get it any better.

The Personal protection is to protect yourself whilst trying to achieve it.

 

[dwfait]

I think my first purchase will be an air filter to deal with dust in the air,

No, first priority is to get yourself a powered air fed respirator. when dust is in the air and awaiting the air cleaner to pick it up, possibly over several hours you are still breathing it in.

Even for hand tools / saws? Would a non-air fed respirator (that I already have) not be sufficient? Air fed systems seem both quite hard to find and very expensive.

Would a dust extractor inlet hose clamped to the bench near where I'm sawing + an air filter + me wearing a respirator be good protection?

 

[CHJ]

Even for hand tools / saws? Would a non-air fed respirator (that I already have) not be sufficient? Air fed systems seem both quite hard to find and very expensive.

Would a dust extractor inlet hose clamped to the bench near where I'm sawing + an air filter + me wearing a respirator be good protection?

Your lungs, your choice, and don't forget other members of the household if they frequent the same area.

If you have an ambient air filter you need to make sure the circulating air it is moving around from its exhaust is not compounding the airborne dust problem outside your immediate work area.

Cheapest option subject to loosing heat in the winter months is to dump as much dust as possible outside.

 

[dwfait]

Your lungs, your choice, and don't forget other members of the household if they frequent the same area.

That's exactly why I'd prefer to invest money in systems which will clean the air of the room rather than just provide a personal shield for me.

If you have an ambient air filter you need to make sure the circulating air it is moving around from its exhaust is not compounding the airborne dust problem outside your immediate work area.

Will do. I've also read that they like to be up high?

Cheapest option subject to loosing heat in the winter months is to dump as much dust as possible outside.

I'm willing to invest money - that's not the issue, I get that this is safety and that's highest priority, especially if I ever were to work with MDF (not that that's an appealing prospect atm). I just want to make sure I get the right products to deal with the problem and make sure I don't pollute the house, without just protecting me.

I guess basically what I'm asking for is a recommendation of quiet machines that will do just that. Currently I'm looking at the Numatic NV750 and the Record Power AC400. Numatic with a hose for where I'm working, and the AC400 on while I'm working + 4/5 hours afterwards in a strategic position. Is there anything wrong with that setup / will it not be sufficient?

 

[Doug B]

I found this book very helpful when I set up my present workshop up many moons ago
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Woodshop-Dust-C ... st+control

Definitely worth £3.84 for a second hand copy

 

[gregmcateer]

I found this book very helpful when I set up my present workshop up many moons ago
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Woodshop-Dust-C ... st+control

Definitely worth £3.84 for a second hand copy

Good tip, Doug. Thanks for sharing that.

PS took a nosey at your facebook page - some nice stuff there, young man!

With that very nice repacement finial you made, was there a particular reason you made it out of several parts, rather than one piece?

Cheers

Greg

 

[Doug B]

PS took a nosey at your facebook page - some nice stuff there, young man!

With that very nice repacement finial you made, was there a particular reason you made it out of several parts, rather than one piece?

Cheers

Greg

Mainly because at just over 3' it wouldn't fit on my lathe Greg, though I think also I'd have struggled holding it between centres & turning it even if it had fit.

Apologies for the thread hijack dwfait

 

[gregmcateer]

Doug - gotcha.
dwfait, apologies from me too
Greg

 

[MIGNAL]

I think my first purchase will be an air filter to deal with dust in the air,

No, first priority is to get yourself a powered air fed respirator. when dust is in the air and awaiting the air cleaner to pick it up, possibly over several hours you are still breathing it in.

Even for hand tools / saws? Would a non-air fed respirator (that I already have) not be sufficient? Air fed systems seem both quite hard to find and very expensive.

Would a dust extractor inlet hose clamped to the bench near where I'm sawing + an air filter + me wearing a respirator be good protection?

I've NEVER seen any woodworker use a respirator whilst using a hand saw, including myself.
I'm not saying you shouldn't, just that I've never witnessed it and I've seen a few woodworkers in my time. Same with hand Planes, chisels, gouges and rasps.

 

[PAC1]

Dealing with dust is very difficult. I know I keep saying this but look at Bill Penz website. It takes some following but it does make sense and since I followed the advice my air quality is much better. Collecting dust from a mitre saw is the most difficult. You need to move a lot of air and try to control how far the dust spreads in the first place, so enclose the saw (or use it outside). If you can exhaust to the outside it saves the very fine dust being recycled.
Most room filters do not filter the really fine dust that is so dangerous.
Dust from handsaws is not usually dangerous. Unless you are sawing the very reactive woods I would not bother as the dust is usually too large.