Cyclone dust seperator - creation

[Argonaut]

I have a pretty powerful extract system available in my garage (BEAM whole house vac), but this puts huge volumes of shaving & dust down the pipes …. So thought about installing a Cyclone-separator … some call them dual bucket separators – in my case the BEAM would be the 2nd bucket.
I had been looking around at various diy projects on-line for this .. ranging from sheet metal work & leaf blowers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnZcmZRP-nw

Pretty rough road cone variants:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO2leQV0I8w

To incredibly detailed woodwork projects:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8jGu4duMk0

Nice screw top container :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEoGPITqBQA


Couple of questions ..

Assuming a Cyclone separator is a good thing …. I like the idea of the Toroidal spiral head unit,(and perhaps better performance) but saw the wood cone as a lot of work, and the segmented creation hours of effort.

Then came across on eBay … ready made cyclone units for you to fit to your own vac & collecting drum:
http://tinyurl.com/ju2kwrp £16 incl clips & couplers

or no toroidal – simple side entry units:
http://tinyurl.com/z6zawof at around £13 cyclone only

Anybody used either of these, be interested how they perform ……… they are not huge items …
The former is ~13” and the latter around 15” … they are smooth should give good air flow and cyclonic action compared to a rough or vertical drum unit.

2 associated questions ..
Would be nice to sit to a screw top sturdy plastic collecting drum … the US guys seem to have easy access to these in Home Depot etc., can you get these in UK …. I did try googling but only found food grade items at £70


I would need to make up a 2” flexible hose to attach between cyclone input and whatever power tool being used … anybody know if you can buy flexible corrugated/reinforced hoses and push fit rubber couplers to make up custom hose length ?

 

[pike]

I've got what you called the no toroidal one. I don't actually know how that is different from the £16 one you linked. Just off to google "toroidal"..

It seems to work great. I got it from exactly that ebay seller. I get nearly no dust in the vac. I can see through it and there are 3-5 rings of cycloned dust going around and down so it clearly works.

I used a 26l metal drum from http://patricoshop.co.uk/.

I have bought a 60l blue plastic drum for my larger lower pressure chip collector cyclone. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141806798939. For the plastic lid I've cut a ply circle just to strengthen it a bit. The small cyclone on the metal drum just fits directly over a hole I cut out with a jigsaw.

People say you need a pressure relief valve, especially on the plastic drums and in particular for the high pressure vac.

 

[MusicMan]

I have a £13 toroidal separator and a £18 strong plastic drum on order. I'll let you know how I get on, should be later this week. Axminster do the hose, http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-cl ... -5m-102572.

Keith

 

[Argonaut]

I have a £13 toroidal separator and a £18 strong plastic drum on order. I'll let you know how I get on, should be later this week. Axminster do the hose, http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-cl ... -5m-102572.

Keith

I read a few reviews ... and some project details - the whole process is built around air spinning and centrifugal force throws dust to edge and it fall down the cone. In a couple of the articles they were extolling having a toroidal air entry so it starts the centrifugal action before it enters the cone - increasing efficiency.
I have no decision yet which I'll get - hence question.


Nice hose - but £32 seems very excessive. .. and without the end fittings
What did you do about end fittings ... a jubilee clip one end is fine but need some sort of rubber adapter so it can be moved between machines.

 

[Argonaut]

I have bought a 60l blue plastic drum .

Thant idea helped found a nice 30L one for £14 .. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302129397033

Didn't need the grab handles, and the parallel sides, should make it less likely to be knocked over.

 

[pike]

The non toroidal one is in the uk. I got mine quick and it works well as far as I can see judging from how much doesn't get to the vac. If you prefer the other one watch out for the delivery time from Hong Kong. Or maybe find a toroidal one in the UK if possible.

 

[technium]

Watching with interest as this is something I will need to look into soon now that my workshop is nearly finished.

 

[Argonaut]

Found that you can get the 63mm hose much cheaper that Axminster ... eBay sellers do this by the metre.

Just have to find a push fit coupling.

 

[MusicMan]

I can't find the metal-reinforced transparent hose on eBay. I'd appreciate a link. Found plenty of push-fit connectors, though, e.g.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Straight-Sili ... 0688700173

 

[MattRoberts]

I can't find the metal-reinforced transparent hose on eBay. I'd appreciate a link. Found plenty of push-fit connectors, though, e.g.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Straight-Sili ... 0688700173

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110918247105

 

[MusicMan]

Many thanks Matt!

 

[sploo]

I'm not entirely convinced of the need for a "Toroidal spiral head unit"; if you think about it, it's just a complex way of bending the air flow before it hits the interior side wall of the cyclone - where it would bend and spin anyway. Generally you want to avoid tight bends in pipework as it reduces airflow.

Bill Pentz's site is probably the one you want to look at for cyclone info (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/), and IRC, he advises a nice clear straight run into the side of the cyclone.

 

[pike]

I agree. My non toroidal one works great and the air flow route is perfectly ok, allowing nearly zero into the vac. Maybe it's better but by exactly how much?

 

[sploo]

I agree. My non toroidal one works great and the air flow route is perfectly ok, allowing nearly zero into the vac. Maybe it's better but by exactly how much?

It may well be worse - but that's the difficult thing to test. Good dust extraction is complex - you need to ensure you have:

1. Suitable shrouds on machines for collection
2. Sufficient volume of air flow for capture of fine dust
3. Sufficient air speed in the ducting to ensure the dust is carried
4. Good separation of large dust/chips in your cyclone/baffle
5. Good filtration of the exhaust air if it's being returned to the workshop

An inefficient separator (or unsuitable ducting) will kill airflow (and with it, dust capture); as will unsuitable filters. A separator that doesn't separate very well will dump too much dust into filters, clogging them and killing airflow. Ducting that's too wide will reduce air speed too - so bigger isn't always better.

The issues are slightly different for high volume/low pressure impeller style systems (vs low volume/high pressure vacs), but much of the above is still valid.

I suspect that many of the designers of the cheaper separators won't have the proper kit to test airflow, efficiency, and separation quality (particulates at the exhaust).

 

[Argonaut]

I can't find the metal-reinforced transparent hose on eBay. I'd appreciate a link. Found plenty of push-fit connectors, though, e.g.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Straight-Sili ... 0688700173

excellent that was what I needed ....

 

[Argonaut]

I agree. My non toroidal one works great and the air flow route is perfectly ok, allowing nearly zero into the vac. Maybe it's better but by exactly how much?

It may well be worse - but that's the difficult thing to test. Good dust extraction is complex - you need to ensure you have:
>
>
I suspect that many of the designers of the cheaper separators won't have the proper kit to test airflow, efficiency, and separation quality (particulates at the exhaust).

I know my extract unit works well now - just adding the separator to avoid all these chippings going down in-built fixed pipes.
Having seen many 'ropey' looking diy units that work OK, should think that the purchased unit should work well.
Unfortunately only way to find out is to try it, or get feedback from someone who has.

I have ordered drum & the cyclone unit ... just need to get hook-up hose sorted.

 

[Argonaut]

I agree. My non toroidal one works great and the air flow route is perfectly ok, allowing nearly zero into the vac. Maybe it's better but by exactly how much?

Perhaps the benefit is that is has already had the chippings done one revolution before hitting the cone, making it more efficient without having to increase diam & length of cone ... I'm not sure .. perhaps the side entry has a dead area above the entry point, the cyclone action starting further down the cone.
By starting the 'cyclone' effect at the very top of the unit may be beneficial.

No facts either way ... Hence the reason for asking here.

I'll be building up next week - I'll report back how it goes.

 

[Argonaut]

I can't find the metal-reinforced transparent hose on eBay. I'd appreciate a link. Found plenty of push-fit connectors, though, e.g.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Straight-Sili ... 0688700173

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110918247105

Bought that - Thanks