Construction advice for my new shop's furniture ...

[gidon]

I posted last week in the design forum for some inspiration for a counter and tables for my new shop which will be selling technology (computers, cameras, mp3 players etc) - think Apple store kind of look. I got some very helpful advice from forum members.

I've ordered the wood (9 sheets walnut veneered MDF 18mm) which should arrive today - but over the weekend the design has changed slightly - my wife preferred the designs shown below! (Si - if you're reading this I'm still going use a variant of your method for hiding exposed edges!)

Jason's advice in the other thread if I understood him correctly was to make the oversize legs and top from a sandwich of two sheets of veneered MDF with strips of MDF between them to make up the thickness. And then wrap the sandwich with solid lipping.

The 6mm square detail will be a rebate around the top of the legs / base of the counter.

For the rest of the construction I was planning to use biscuits. I will build this on my own and will have to cut the pieces and joinery at home and assemble the pieces at the shop. I don't have much time - < 2 weeks really and I want the construction to be as simple as possible! I don't mind what joinery I use as long as its's hidden!.

Please can I ask your advise - any suggestions on construction (and still can change the design too as long as it doesn't use too much more wood) much appreciated!

Shop tables - will be three of these in a row - L-1.2m, H-.9m, D-.6m




Shop counter - L-1.6, H-.9m (till .8m), D-.6m




Cheers

Gidon

 

[jasonB]

It looks like your legs are going to be about 100mm wide as well as the depth of the tops. This is a bit big to lip the edges completely and would need too much glueing up to get teh layers. So I would just make the four sides of the legs using Si's method and set some scraps MDF in flush top & bottom, few biscuits to keep them aligned while the glue sets.

The tops I would make the 4 sides like a short leg and then rebate the top edges so a sheet of 19mm board drops in with 6mm protruding so you can bead all round and down the corners, bottom can be as the top or just plain MDF set flush like the legs as its unlikely anyone will look under it.

I can't see the need for the double layer of board (first shelf) on the counter. Just rout a 3mm x 3mm groove in the sides down from the top to get the shadow gap so it looks like the tables.

You could leave part of the leg bottoms open so that you can get inside to screw the legs to the table tops, will make moving them from workshop to shop easier.

If anything is not clear I can sketch something out.

Jason

 

[big soft moose]

one small point and not to do with the woodworking aspect - with your shop counter you need to leave room to the right (from the customers side) of the till for a chip and pin card reader - as things stand it will be sitting on the glass over the counter display - which kind of defeats the purpose of the glass

 

[gidon]

Thanks Jason - I don't think I've understood your original idea then! Perhaps if you had a chance a sketch would be very helpful! Thank you.
And I don't know whether I've been looking at Sketchup for too long but not sure I understand your suggestion for the top either?
Thanks for spotting the double layer - saved me some wood and gives me more space under the glass keeping the top 100mm thick.
And screwing through inside of the legs is genius!

BSM - good point - thank you!

Cheers

Gidon

 

[jasonB]

Sketch here

Personally I don't see the need for a wider area for the C&Pin machine, it can sit on the 100mm border to the glass when not in use and you just offer it to the client to enter their number.

I think I would take the vertical divider betwen the till and display area all the way down, would help reduce sagging and you could always add a lockable draw if you found a need at a later date.

Also not keen on the cut-outs for skirting on the backs of the table legs, would just butt them up against skitring and let the top sit away from the wall. A desk cable tidy would be quicker to fit than routing that cable groove and finishing the cut edges in walnut.

Jason

 

[gidon]

Jason - really good of you to do that sketch - thanks very much! And makes it a lot clearer - I get it now (I hope).
What do you mean by a desk table tidy? I saw that cable groove at the Apple store and it looked quite neat but yes an easier option is always appreciated.
To rout the groove around the legs and in the counter are you suggesting rebating a 6x6 groove, filling with hardwood and routing the groove in that?
To cut the vennered MDF I'll be doing my finish cuts straight from the board I hope with my hand circular saw. Have used the blade that came with my saw (Dewalt DW65) but probably should get something that'll give a better finish. Any recommendations?
Jason and Si I owe you both a pint!
Cheers
Gidon

 

[wizer]

I think he means one of these

 

[gidon]

Ah ok thanks Wizer - although it would have to be 100mm long for my tops?
Cheers
Gidon

 

[jasonB]

Thats the sort of thing, you can get them in dark brown, varoius diameters and also oblong. Don't see the need for extra length, just leave a plain hole in the bottom layer or stick in another cable tidy.

Assuming its a 190mm blade then try the CMT fine crosscut, Axminster No 300179, thats got a reasonably high top bevel so should give a reasonable finish on the veneer.

While you are at it get some of teh Titebond "dark wood glue"

For the 6x6 bead where the board joints are rebated I would just cut the rebate 6mm short. For the beads where I have marked with * you can assemble the box and then route the 6x6 rebate with either a bearing guided rebate cutter or a large cutter/fence combination, you may need a shallow climb cut first along the veneer endgrain to stop it splitting out.

Jason

 

[big soft moose]

Personally I don't see the need for a wider area for the C&Pin machine, it can sit on the 100mm border to the glass when not in use and you just offer it to the client to enter their number.

that depends on what sort of chip and pin reader you are getting - some types require a mounting baracket and arm - and it would be a tad hard to fix the mounting bracket to a glass surface.

personally i'd forget the glass in the counter entirely - as customers cant look at a display there while others are queueing and if they do see something they like while queueing it will just delay the queue - just put your under lock and key items in a locked display case somewhere where it can be seen easily from the counter

that would leave you with easier construction and a flat top on which you can display literature, customers can lean on, and also is future proof if you later wanted to include electronic detagging etc - for the same reason i wouldnt recess the till either as what happen if in a couple of years you want to change your till model and the new one is wider - you dont want the upheaval and lost buisiness of having to close while you rejig your counter

 

[gidon]

Thanks Jason - already put in an Axminster order - ordered some Titebond III which also is quite dark so hopefully ok. Did look at the dark wood glue but only in small sizes ...
I know you'll wish you never stepped in but when you say the board joints - you mean table leg to top joint? At the moment there's no need for any edge lipping since the top conceals it. But are you suggesting rebating the top of the legs and adding a bead? If so then cutting this short will reveal the bare MDF edge won't it?
Also you've shown rebating the bottom of the leg for adding hardwood - why's that?
Thanks
Gidon

 

[gidon]

BSM it's going to come down to time and cost - the glass will add another £60 and will be extra work. Tills seem to be standard 400mm width - at least the ones I'm looking at.
But like suggesttions that keep things simple! I'm having enough trouble with the tables let alone the counter!
Cheers
Gidon

 

[big soft moose]

and actually - and i dont mean this to be negative or unconstructive - i'm not convinced of the wisdom of doing your own shop fitting anyway - if you bought your display stands and counter ready made (or even second hand) - or paid a team of shop fitters to do it for you if ready made doesnt fit your requirements the whole fit out would be a legitimate business expense and thus tax deductible (or at the very least value depreciable)

doing it yourself it will take longer, (and thus there will be a longer period until you can open - all shopping days running up to xmas) quite likely materials will cost more as you wont get the bulk discount that a shopfitter or manfacturer gets, and while you will still be able to reclaim material costs you wont easily reclaim your time, or as previouslty discussed the cost of tools you need to buy for the job.

 

[gidon]

BSM good points but I've looked into shop furniture and it's expensive to get the look I want. The wood has cost £400. The shop still has to be decorated and floored - I've paid for the building work that's just finished and I'm paying the decorator since I felt my time is better spent doing this and they can do it better. I will still have to buy shop fittings (glass cabinets)etc. And it's a fun talking point for the shop too .
Cheers
Gidon