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Clifton cap iron for stanley No.4

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Gerard Scanlan

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I enquired about a new blade for my Stanley No.4 and Matthew at Workshop Heaven suggested I try a new cap iron instead as he claimed that was often the cause of the poor performance. I cannot believe the difference it makes. WOW. It is like the blade is now twice as sharp. I had tried a piece of drawer liner before to dampen chatter and it was not bad but the Clifton 2 piece cap iron is really tremendous. =D>
 

Paul Chapman

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Yes, they're good aren't they. Probably the simplest way to improve the performance of any Bailey-style plane with a thin blade. Just don't tell old Woodbloke because he hates them :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 

woodbloke

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Paul Chapman":3m20wist said:
Yes, they're good aren't they. Probably the simplest way to improve the performance of any Bailey-style plane with a thin blade. Just don't tell old Woodbloke because he hates them :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul
Oi Chapman...less of the 'old'! :lol: (even if the big sixoh is coming up shortly) Not saying nowt about Clifton two peicers 'cept that they should be engraved with horns and a forked tail :twisted: :twisted: - Rob
 

jimi43

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I heard from others that they are quite good.....if you sweep up the shavings and wear steel toecap boots though! :twisted:

They can be difficult to find if you don't and you have an older person's failing eyesight! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink:

Jim
 

Vann

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Another convert 8)

Paul Chapman advocates placing your forefinger on the 'deflector' (the droppy off bit) everytime you remove or insert the irons. Works for me.

Cheers, Vann.
 

bugbear

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It appears that almost any upgrade can help a malfunctioning plane - better bedding, thicker blade, more rigid cap iron.

"premium" planes have ALL of these, just to be on the safe side.

BugBear
 

woodbloke

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bugbear":2nwdb819 said:
It appears that almost any upgrade can help a malfunctioning plane - better bedding, thicker blade, more rigid cap iron.

"premium" planes have ALL of these, just to be on the safe side.

BugBear
...but only one less enlightened manufacturer still makes a two part chip breaker...how daft is that? - Rob (is there a smiley for stirring the pot? :lol: )
 

bugbear

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woodbloke":1w8s6l3d said:
bugbear":1w8s6l3d said:
It appears that almost any upgrade can help a malfunctioning plane - better bedding, thicker blade, more rigid cap iron.

"premium" planes have ALL of these, just to be on the safe side.

BugBear
...but only one less enlightened manufacturer still makes a two part chip breaker...how daft is that? - Rob (is there a smiley for stirring the pot? :lol: )
You might be interested in the Millers Falls lever cap.

BugBear
 

Gerard Scanlan

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It is true that expensive planes will not neccessarily benefit much from such a cap iron. However I was given my stanley plane as a present over 30 years ago and improving the performance of an old tool rather than throwing it away and spending a lot of money is a good thing isn't it? If Woodbloke does not like these cap irons that is probably a good thing. When everyone agrees on something it is seldom a good sign. Everyone has different requirements and expectations and so different tools suit different people.
If however he could have witnessed the difference it made to my plane he may have been less negative but I would at the same time not presume to convert him. To anyone thinking of replacing their plane blade however in a Bailey type cast iron plane I would recommend trying a better quality cap iron. It is a great shame that Stanley did not make them like that in the first place.
 

woodbloke

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bugbear":toyvoeo3 said:
woodbloke":toyvoeo3 said:
bugbear":toyvoeo3 said:
It appears that almost any upgrade can help a malfunctioning plane - better bedding, thicker blade, more rigid cap iron.

"premium" planes have ALL of these, just to be on the safe side.

BugBear
...but only one less enlightened manufacturer still makes a two part chip breaker...how daft is that? - Rob (is there a smiley for stirring the pot? :lol: )
You might be interested in the Millers Falls lever cap.

BugBear
But are they in current production BB? Note that I said that only one manufacturer still makes a two-parter...happy to be proved wrong though, if MF are still in business

GS writ:
'Woodbloke does not like these cap irons that is probably a good thing. When everyone agrees on something it is seldom a good sign. Everyone has different requirements and expectations and so different tools suit different people.
If however he could have witnessed the difference it made to my plane he may have been less negative but I would at the same time not presume to convert him. To anyone thinking of replacing their plane blade however in a Bailey type cast iron plane I would recommend trying a better quality cap iron. It is a great shame that Stanley did not make them like that in the first place.'


I've used these things extensively in the past, and as far as I could see, they didn't make a blind bit of of difference to the way the plane cut, except to make it far more awkward to use with my then current honing guide...and I won't mention the dropy off bit :twisted: :twisted: - Rob
 

dunbarhamlin

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My heirloom honing guides (in a delicate shade of dirty pink) like StaySet cap irons - no screwing before a quick touch up.
 

jimi43

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In the (much respected) Planecraft book by J.Sainsbury (see..they were selling quality tools in supermarkets WAY before ALDI!).....I quote:

4. The application of pressure at three points (instead of two, as in the old type) has at last eliminated all possibility of chatter; the "Stay-Set" cap iron is guaranteed chatterproof.

5. The "Stay-Set" cap iron is increased in thickness and in close pressure contact with the cutting iron for the whole of its length. This greatly increases the rigidity of the entire cutting unit.

6.) The extra thickness of the cap iron and deflector not only increases rigidity, but it also allows a longer thread for the cap screw......WAIT FOR IT...WAIT FOR IT ROB....., lessening the need for complete removal of the cap screw with possible loss in the shavings on the floor! (it doesn't mention toe damage though!!!) :mrgreen:

7. On account of the parallelism of the top face of the deflector with the cutting iron, the pressure exerted by the lever cap is always constant throughout the entire length of adjustment of the cutter. In the old type, the convexity of the cap iron caused a variation in pressure of the lever cap, according to the position of the latter on the cap iron.
So....definite proof if proof were needed Rob....

OH...and did I mention who published this respected tome? Ah.....um....yes...well...C&J Hampton...that was who! :wink:

So....no bias there then...must be right then...init! :mrgreen:

Jim
 

woodbloke

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Jim...a question. Try doing the 'ruler trick' with one half of the cap iron still in place on the iron...assuming that the other bit, the dropy off section has managed to loose itself in the hypothetical 150mm thick shavings on the floor :twisted: Unless you've got a knack that I haven't, it's all but impossible. Both halves of the cap iron need to be removed, which negates the need for the blo@£y thing in the first place, n'est pas? - Rob
 

jimi43

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Simples dear Rob.

The accurate meeting of TWO perfectly flat faces at a point defines the perfect edge....

The ruler trick is nothing short of multi-bevelism de la Grimsdale!!! :mrgreen:

Jim
 

SteveB43

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WH also do a one piece thick QS cap iron, which I've used. however I do need to get a larger Y lever to cope with extra thickness...
or there's the trick soldering on a tad more metal to increase the existing Y lever height
 

Gerard Scanlan

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Using the Richard Kell No.2 honing guide that arrived from Workshop Heaven yesterday along with the 2 piece cap iron I can remove the lower piece of the cap iron and hone the blade while the top section remains in place. Nice, quick, easy and effective!
 

dunbarhamlin

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Can see the point to using the ruler trick on an old abused or pitted iron, or perhaps on a Hock, but not on a new Cliffie, LN or LV
 

Vann

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Gerard Scanlan":fhgi9qqk said:
Using the Richard Kell No.2 honing guide that arrived from Workshop Heaven yesterday along with the 2 piece cap iron ...
Woohoo :!: Using the key words "Richard Kell honing guide" and "Workshop Heaven" in a discussion arguing against Woodbloke's point of view. Well done. 8) =D>

Matthew - you may have lost all future business from the "bloke" :twisted: :twisted:

Cheers, Vann. :lol: :lol:
 

Alf

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bugbear":1w206mbp said:
woodbloke":1w206mbp said:
...but only one less enlightened manufacturer still makes a two part chip breaker...how daft is that? - Rob (is there a smiley for stirring the pot? :lol: )
You might be interested in the Millers Falls lever cap.
Ah, but that doesn't fall apart into separate pieces. I'm firmly with Rob on this one - could never get along with the two-piece cap iron either.

jimi43":1w206mbp said:
In the (much respected) Planecraft book by J.Sainsbury (see..they were selling quality tools in supermarkets WAY before ALDI!).....I quote:

6.) The extra thickness of the cap iron and deflector not only increases rigidity, but it also allows a longer thread for the cap screw......WAIT FOR IT...WAIT FOR IT ROB....., lessening the need for complete removal of the cap screw with possible loss in the shavings on the floor! (it doesn't mention toe damage though!!!) :mrgreen:
But they're talking about dropping the cap iron screw, not a whole chunk of the cap iron (which is certainly my issue with the noxious things). Honestly I can't ever recall the absence of thread length on a cap iron leading to disastrous loss of the screw ever coming up in discussions. Clutching at straws here for some positives about this cap iron of the devil, methinks. :wink:

Y'know thinking about it, three #6 Cliffies or Record Stay Sets lined up would be a really, really bad sign...
 

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