circular cutter tools - what am I missing

[Shay Vings]

Reading my latest copy of Woodturning I am losing count of the number of firms pushing tools using circular tunsten carbide cutters. What's the difference between the cutting edge of a gouge and the cutting edge of a small circular cutter presented at the some position on the workpiece?

I can see that tungsten carbide may be a superior metal, that you don't have any sharpening to do (a big plus for me!) and the arms are articulated to do stuff a gouge could never do. Also, the tools sport fairly massive sections so will be very rigid.

But on a bog standard bevel rubbing cut around a bowl, I can't see the advantage. I am obviously wrong otherwise all the major manufacturers wouldn't have spent so much on product development and marketing.

Are we seeing the end of the humble gouge?

 

[Spindle]

Hi

In my opinion replaceable tips are just the latest way to extract more cash from wood turners. Tungsten carbide does not take such a fine edge as HSS or carbon tool steel, requires diamond hones to keep it in peak condition and generally each tip represents about 1/3rd of the price of an equivilent new traditional tool. I'm also adverse to changing tips during a session - I'd much rather have dedicated tools, (more expensive initially but buying as the need becomes apparent spreads the pain).

Regards Mick

 

[xraymtb]

From reviews I've found the lack of sharpening is the big advantage but they don't leave as well finished a surface as a standard gouge.

Having never used one I can't comment personally but have been advised myself to make sure I can use a gouge properly before considering these tools.

 

[CHJ]

The tungsten carbide tips used for wood tools is a differing composition more akin to those used for brass or aluminium than steel, having a very sharp edge, (steel TC tips tend to shear not slice, relying on compressive strength)

I often resort to using a carbide cutter for bulk material removal because I can use it in flat on the rest scraper mode with no fear of a catch.
I'm still using the tips I acquired in 2008. so if these round ones perform and hold their edges anywhere near as long then they should be a worthwhile addition to any turners arsenal.

 

[=Adam=]

Chas:

How often would you say that you use the carbide tools?

I have been thinking of making one just as you have done however I am not sure on the dimensions required for the recess where the cutter sits. Did you follow any guides?

Sorry for all of the questions!

 

[CHJ]

Chas:
How often would you say that you use the carbide tools?

At least once or twice a week, they get used on big bowls for roughing, (not doing many of those recently) but because of the rigidity/stiffness of the tool I regularly use them in boring mode with my boxes to do the initial truing and shaping of the segments as the tips stand up to the glue abrasion that can take the edge off a HSS gouge with a couple of passes.

I have been thinking of making one just as you have done however I am not sure on the dimensions required for the recess where the cutter sits.....

I just filed a notch in the end of the bar to take the insert, with the rectangular inserts you need to make sure that the back edge is tight up against the filed rear step when you drill and tap the mounting hole to prevent it swivelling in use, and that the side edge and front face is clear of your tool shank.

 

[DonJohnson]

Hi Shay Vings, (just got it ! :lol: )

If you read the blurb on http://www.woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/Pa ... Tools.html it seems that their take on the use of these carbide cutters is mainly to do with ease of use - particularly for beginners who don't have to learn about 'finding the bevel.'

Having tried one, I must say that as an infrequent turner, I find it much more 'comfortable' to use, with virtually no stress on my nerves that I might catch - like I always seem to do with the skew!

At my woodturning club, when I took mine to show it off, it got a rather subdued reception, but recently the chairman demonstrated a bowl cutting version brought out by the company he sells tools for, as the 'best thing since sliced bread'. Perhaps attitudes to scrapers are changing ?

 

[CHJ]

Perhaps attitudes to scrapers are changing ?

To me a flat topped or very nearly so cutting tool (scraper) is treated just like I would in metal turning, well supported and advanced as I would on a metal lathe or a wooden pattern makers lathe.
If it removes bulk wood fast with no risk of catching then I see no problem, advancing this principle to try and obtain the refined finish achievable with bevel rubbing gouges is I guess an obvious evolution of new materials and marketing, it may well lead to new turners being able to do work that they can't master with bevel rubbing gouges and not be put off the hobby due to catches.

It's a bit like in metal working hobbies, filing ever thing by hand or moving up to a milling machine.
To each his own skill or preference and depth of pocket, what matters is the end product.

I see the modern tipped tools as cutters rather than scrapers, in fact thinking about it I use my wide flat 'scrapers' as lathe tool cutters just as often as I do as a cabinet scraper equivalent.

 

[woodyturner]

I have made quite a few of these tool from your standard size chisel up to 36" long chisels and with articulated heads for people especially for people who have a trouble learning to sharpen there gouges and newbies to turning and every one who purchased them said they worked extremely well for them and they solved all there sharpening problems I have been turning for more years than I can remember and personally I think they are a worthwhile tool to have because they work now what is wrong with that the tips I got on ebay for £1 each how cheep was that

 

[graduate_owner]

I was at a woodworking exhibition last week and one of the demonstrators was using a HSS circular cutter (fixed to a rigid bar) to hollow out a small bowl. This is something I get difficulty with, but I had a go and it really was so EASY. I bought a tip for £10 and will attach it to a shank soon - I'm looking forward to trying it out on my own lathe. The demonstrator said once the edge was dulled he loosened the screw and turned the tip to present a new edge. The tips could be sharpened but he never got his as sharp as when new, so after rotating the cutting edge all the way round he just bought a new one - lasted him months and months as a full time turner. The whole tool, including shank, cost about £25 but a shank is easy enough to make so I wasn't prepared to spend that much.

I also bought some Sandvik TCT tips from ebay for about £1 each to make scrapers with, and I'm looking forward to trying those out too, as soon as my back pain has gone. If they work as well as I've read about then they'll be a cheap way of getting scrapers - just a length of square section steel and a home-turned handle.

I'll keep readers informed on the progress of these Sandvicks- could save a bit of cash and sharpening time.

K

 

[woodyturner]

They are easy to sharpen all you do is remove them from the shank lay them flat on a diamond stone and give them a few rubs and the edge is back on them

 

[CHJ]

They are easy to sharpen all you do is remove them from the shank lay them flat on a diamond stone and give them a few rubs and the edge is back on them

Not all the current range being marketed are flat topped woody, some have a top rake groove similar to the cutters used in the shielded tools.

 

[stevenw1963]

I have two of Woodys tools that he made.
Brilliant tools, easy to use & removes material like nothing else.
I haven't needed to sharpen any tips yet, just turn it a bit to a sharper edge & carry on.
I saw something similar being sold at a show last year for over £100 & hundreds were buying them.
If you can make your own, do so - they really are decent tools to have in your armoury.

 

[woodyturner]

They are easy to sharpen all you do is remove them from the shank lay them flat on a diamond stone and give them a few rubs and the edge is back on them

Not all the current range being marketed are flat topped woody, some have a top rake groove similar to the cutters used in the shielded tools.

Right wont they sharpen in the same manner as the shielded tools with a diamond stone on the edge but I must admit I wouldn't know I have never used or seen those types
I have put some photos of the ones I used and some of the tools I made for them I hope they help the steel will extend and retract in the handle

 

[CHJ]

....Right wont they sharpen in the same manner as the shielded tools with a diamond stone on the edge ....

I theory yes and also with a sharpening jig on an appropriate wheel but they are not so easy as the flat topped variety and I have rarely managed to get the same edge as new. But I don't have a fine diamond wheel so that may be the reason.
Anyway the flat topped I use work well and the life of the others would seem to be adequate as is.
Sharpening is such a rare event that experience is hard to come by.

 

[12345Peter]

Not all carbide tips are good for wood, it appears that the carbide tips that are designated for aluminium are the one to use on wood.

Like woody I bought mine on ebay and I sharpen them by inverting them on a flat diamond stone and do about 6 figure of 8s, sharp again.

Regards
Peter

 

[CHJ]

Not all carbide tips are good for wood, it appears that the carbide tips that are designated for aluminium are the one to use on wood.

Yes they have sharper edges and are formulated for more of a slicing cut as opposed to a brute force shearing cut used with steel.