Choosing species

[phillamb168]

General availability around here is Ash, Beech and Oak. I know Oak does not do well in outdoor situations, wondering if Ash or Beech are OK for things like garden benches etc, if properly treated with tung oil or some other oil-based finish?

 

[marcros]

what is up with oak?

Ash or beech isnt any good outside.

 

[phillamb168]

what is up with oak?

Ash or beech isnt any good outside.

Norm says it doesn't weather very well, turns black after a while (UV?)

 

[marcros]

Oak

Oak is a hard and decorative wood with a particularly attractive figure in quarter-sawn material. It is a remarkable material; strong, extremely durable, heavy and attractive which makes it the ideal wood to use in construction both indoors and outdoors. Scottish Wood has sold oak for a multiple of purposes, including boat building, construction beams, restoration work, post and rail fencing, bridge-building, signs, waymarkers, lintels, board-walks, flooring, outdoor and indoor furniture etc.

Durable outdoors - Oak is extremely durable outdoors and does not need any preservative treatment. It is once again becoming popular for outdoor fencing, gates, furniture and features especially in urban areas - both because there is no painting or maintenance requirements and also because of its high resistance to vandalism (cutting, sawing and burning).

Building material - Traditionally oak was the main building timber in Europe including posts or beams, boards or roof shingles. It was also the main shipbuilding timber. Oak structures can and do last for centuries and there are churches in Scandinavia whose original oak timbers are over 1000 years old.

Tannic Acid - Most parts of an oak tree are full of tannins or tannic acids ­ powerful chemicals that have the remarkable property of making skins and hides resistant to decay. Tannins in the wood make the heartwood exceptionally durable out of doors and without treatment. But they react to iron causing "inkstains" ­ ignored in rough outdoor work, but for indoor work oak must always be secured with wooden pegs, brass screws or other metals containing no iron.

From http://www.scottishwood.co.uk/hardwoods.htm

The black may be related to putting linseed oil on it- I forget which of Boiled or Raw is said to be less suitable.

 

[RogerP]

From Osmo ...

If the requirement is to keep the oak looking as natural as possible, whilst preventing blackening or silvering as much as possible, then the following is the best system we know of: -

1 coat of clear wood preservative
Followed by 2 coats of Osmo UV Protection oil 420 extra

Osmo 420 extra offers UV resistance and also contains biocide which is important for external timbers as it prevents the wood from becoming diseased with wet rot, dry rot and blue stone etc. The oil also repels water, thus preventing it from going black.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

General availability around here is Ash, Beech and Oak. I know Oak does not do well in outdoor situations, wondering if Ash or Beech are OK for things like garden benches etc, if properly treated with tung oil or some other oil-based finish?

+1 to the other posters. Quite the exact opposite in fact. Oak is perfect for outdoor use and is and always was a very common choice for all the reasons stated by Macros. Its also VERY widely available in France.

Ash is more used in sports equipment, cricket stumps, bails, baseball bats etc. Also in chairs because it steams well for bending. Its a wonderful wood, strong, resilient, quite shockproof (was used extensively in coachwork and still in the frames of 2 of the Morgan classic models). But not so much in outdoor stuff to my knowledge.

Beech is also a fabulous hardwood but I associate beech with kitchen utensils. Its very clean and good for food safe applications. Also used widely in joinery, hardwood window frames and furniture etc. Again, apart from door sills and window boards I don't see a lot of beech outdoor furniture.

Teak, Iroko and Oak in the main and those choices for weather resistance primarily coupled with beauty and strength. Teak is a naturally oily wood which resists weathering. Iroko is just poor mans teak and oak Macro has discussed.

 

[John15]

It's my understanding also that Oak is very resistant to decay and as such it makes an ideal species for outdoor use - I hope so as I'm just finishing making an 5' Oak garden seat.

John

 

[Brian½]

The 'Mary Rose' was made of oak and you only have to see how it has stood up to being under water for such a long time to fully appreciate the quality of oak.

 

[AndyT]

If you want a durable alternative to oak you could look for chestnut or larch.

 

[phillamb168]

Well all around good news then, as oak is, as Bob says, plentiful here and is relatively inexpensive (about 1K eur / m3). Did manage to find some western red cedar of all things at 1500/M3, wonder how that compares to teak. Either way, glad to be getting into this whole woodworking thing, if for no other reason than I can make nice outdoor furniture pieces for way way cheaper than what you can get them for in the shops. Of course that's not why I'm doing it but it's a nice after-effect.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Nice....French oak is lovely too. Western red Cedar is also an absolutely stunning wood and is great for outdoor work.

 

[Grahamshed]

I have to agree with everyone else. Oak can last for hundreds of years while beech will not last long at all. Ash is sort of middling.

 

[carlb40]

what is up with oak?

Ash or beech isnt any good outside.

Norm says it doesn't weather very well, turns black after a while (UV?)

Don't forget Norm only used to use either American red / white oak. One ( cannot rememember which one ) was slightly more durable than the other. The english/ french oak we mainly have here is durable and many many ships were made from oak.

Plus the uk/french oak seems to have more character.

PS

I had some Ash offcuts from a job that i left outside and within 6 months it had turned black and that had no metal touching it etc.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

... Norm only used to use either American red / white oak. One ( cannot rememember which one ) was slightly more durable than the other. The english/ french oak we mainly have here is durable and many many ships were made from oak.

The claim I see frequently espoused here, and elsewhere, that American white oaks are not durable is flat out wrong. Why people keep perpetuating this myth is a puzzle to me, but I suspect it's something along the lines of Chinese whispers where, typical of forums, someone who doesn't know much says something that sounds as if they know what they're talking about and the fallacy becomes an accepted 'truth'. I suspect that 95% of the people who spread this myth about American white oak's alleged non-durability would struggle to give a definition for 'durable' as understood by a timber technologist, but they're about to read one below.

American white oaks are a traditional and durable (15- 25 years lifespan in ground contact) wood for exterior locations. They are perhaps not quite as durable as European oaks, but still durable. American red oaks are non-durable (5- 10 years lifespan in ground contact). In all cases, durability refers only to heartwood and not the sapwood. Slainte.

 

[Woodmonkey]

Durable outdoors - Oak is extremely durable outdoors and does not need any preservative treatment. It is once again becoming popular for outdoor fencing, gates, furniture and features especially in urban areas - both because there is no painting or maintenance requirements and also because of its high resistance to vandalism (cutting, sawing and burning)

eh? I'm pretty sure that oak can be cut, sawn and burned...

 

[RogerS]

what is up with oak?

Ash or beech isnt any good outside.

Norm says it doesn't weather very well, turns black after a while (UV?)

Norm knows diddly-squat.

 

[SteveF]

i built my shed from western red cedar

time will tell
but saw mill said if it rotted left untreated before i die..they give me a refund

i am nearly 50 so fingers crossed :lol: :lol:

Steve

 

[zb1]

TRADA classifications as follows:

Oak, American Red - Class 4, Slightly Durable
Oak American White - Class 3, Moderately Durable
Oak, European - Class 2, Durable

Using locally grown and sourced European Oak is far better than using something shipped several thousand miles across the world and should be cheaper. I get a lot of green oak from France and Germany and the quality is very high because the forest management is very good and consistent.

 

[Austin Branson]

i built my shed from western red cedar

time will tell
but saw mill said if it rotted left untreated before i die..they give me a refund

i am nearly 50 so fingers crossed :lol: :lol:

Steve

I agree, Western Red Cedar is very good for outdoor use. My house in Canada had windows made of it, and they were fabulous. Be careful with the dust - it's pretty nasty and will cause nose bleeds.
Austin

 

[Benchwayze]

Nice....French oak is lovely too. Western red Cedar is also an absolutely stunning wood and is great for outdoor work.

+1 (hammer)

My school was built from cedar-wood in1934. It lasted until the 8os, when it was 'arsonised'.
The only drawback is cedar's softness, and little boys' predisposition to writing their initials with a thumbnail!