Chisels or a plane - or both?-Now incl New Stanley Plane Pic

[cutting42]

Hi All

Firstly apologies for the million and one questions but I am in a tizzy over this and having spent weeks poring over catalogues and websites need some expert/experienced advice.

I am a power tool user primarily but have found the need to use Chisels and a plane on occasion for cleaning up joints and tenons etc. Unfortunately my circa 1995 B&Q special chisels and #4 plane have not inspired me with their performance. I have tried a few sharpening gadgets but have come to the conclusion that nothing much can be done with them. The edge gets sharp for one or two cuts then goes off and the plane chatters and breaks out. I end up putting too much muscle into the tools and lose control.

I have a birthday coming up and the missus has offered to purchase tools of my choice up to £150

Now I love the thought of the LV and LN shiny toys but my budget would only run to a block plane, if so which one low angle or not, and should I push the budget and go for a #4 or maybe a #5 jack, again low angle or not???

How are the Axminster planes? am I asking for more trouble? what about the old/new Stanley offerings. If I get a cheaper model I can get some chisels as well such as the Kirshen set, how are they? Maybe a nice set of Ray Isles would be a great purchase.

I am making home furniture in hardwood using M&T joints with dovetailing a possibility in the future and might get into a little box making at some point.

Somebody make a decision PLEASE!!!!!!!

 

[jonbikebod]

Hi Gareth,
I would say buy three Lie-Nielsen chisels which will be what you need for dovetails and show you how good a really good chisel is. If you have a need to clean joint faces quality chisels are the way to go. The also have no power tool equivalent, planes at least in some respects do.
Jon.

 

[bugbear]

I have tried a few sharpening gadgets

Can you be more specific - even great tools work like rubbish if they're not (really)sharp. Conversely, even rubbish tools work surprisingly well with a good edge.

What is your preferred sharpening system at the moment?

BugBear

 

[cutting42]

Hiya

I started with an oilstone but this was not flat so neither were my blades. I then got a cheap diamond stone which worked ok but upgraded to CMT stones. I use a stanley honing guide similar to this axy one http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Honing-Guide-21261.htmguide to get the correct angle of dangle.

 

[woodbloke]

I've just had a really good look at a whole load of chisels. The very best value chisels with excellent steel would be the Footprint bevel edged ones with a beech ellipsoid handle at less than £40 for a set of four but you'd need to do a bit of work on them to get them presentable. This would then leave you with about £110 to get hold of a LV or a LN low-angle block. If you want to spend a bit more get hold of some Pheil chisels from CHT which are fabulous...but you'll need to rehandle them! Stay well away from Two Cherries btw, they're not all that good! - Rob

 

[Mr Maguire]

Hi Gareth,
For chisels I would recommend Ashly Iles, ther about £13-£14 a piece and hold there eage brilliantly, probably a 1/4",1/2" and 1" would be a good place to start. As for a plane...you say you mainly use power tools and only need it for clean up work so I would say a #4- 4 1/2 smoother would fit the bill, and old stanley would do a great job, if not I have heard some good things about rutlands new range. You might even end up with a bit of change for some sharpening gear. :wink:
Hope this is of some help,

Richard

 

[woodbloke]

Hi Gareth,
For chisels I would recommend Ashly Iles, ther about £13-£14 a piece and hold there eage brilliantly
Richard

...good overall, but the steel is nowhere near as good as the Pheil's - Rob

 

[MIGNAL]

The Footprints are good value with decent steel. The bevel edged version is quite hefty in the blade - way thicker than the AI MK II chisels which are more suited to paring/light tapping.
Not sure about the Pfeils. I have several of their carving chisels and the steel has always struck me as being just average. Of course things could have changed since I purchased them some 12 years ago. They would have to really go some to beat the Ashley Iles MKII chisels though and I doubt that O1 carbon steel can get that much better.
If you are on a budget and are not too concerned about nice thin bevels then the Footprints are a good choice.

 

[woodbloke]

...beat the Ashley Iles MKII chisels though and I doubt that O1 carbon steel can get that much better.
If you are on a budget and are not too concerned about nice thin bevels then the Footprints are a good choice.

...the Swiss steel is much better :wink: and I agree about the Footprints. The AI MkII's have a better overall feel though - Rob

 

[cutting42]

Hmm, very interesting. I have a Footprint tenon saw from about 15 years ago which always impressed me at the price. Where is a good place to get them from?

 

[woodbloke]

Hmm, very interesting. I have a Footprint tenon saw from about 15 years ago which always impressed me at the price. Where is a good place to get them from?

Try here To turn them into really good chisels some time would need to be spent fettling them (sorting out the grinding on the backs and tidying up the handles) but I think they're really good value and the steel is excellent as well...better as an overall bench chisel as they have more 'heft' than the AI's (and are a bit cheaper :wink: ) - Rob

 

[cutting42]

To turn them into really good chisels some time would need to be spent fettling them (sorting out the grinding on the backs and tidying up the handles)

Could you expand on what you mean by fettling them re the backs and handles please?

 

[woodbloke]

To turn them into really good chisels some time would need to be spent fettling them (sorting out the grinding on the backs and tidying up the handles)

Could you expand on what you mean by fettling them re the backs and handles please?

The quality of the steel is very good but the grinding marks need to be removed on the backs. Don't forget these chisels cost less than £40 for a set of four so the quality of the grinding is never going to be up to LN or AI standards. The side bevels are also higher than the AI but there's not a lot you can do about that...if you wanted to do dovetailing then a couple of chisels with a fine bevel on the sides would be needed. The handles are unfinished and just need to be sanded to a smooth profile and then given a finish of your choice. As it's beech you could try some finishing oil which would give you a good result fairly quickly and then use a bit of wax over the top...don't forget to mask off the ferule before you apply any sort of finish
Edit - you can remove the grinding marks on the back by using some Spraymount glue to stick grades of w/d silicon carbide paper to some 6mm float glass. Start off at about 80 or 100g and then finish with 400g. Whatever you do, don't ever hold the chisel by the handle or it'll lift of the paper :evil: ... always have the pressure directly over the top of the blade. Blades are concave in the length as well which is good - Rob

 

[MIGNAL]

You must have received different chisels to those that I got! Mine were finished but not in your typical candy coating. The handles were a little rough in places but nothing that a few minutes with sandpaper couldn't sort out. The backs of the chisels I bought were slightly concave along the length - that made flattening/polishing them very easy. In fact the grind marks on the backs of the chisels were fairly shallow. The grind marks on the bevels were much greater. I'm only going on a sample of 2 chisels though, perhaps I got lucky with the backs being slightly concave.
They do have very large side walls. That's easy to sort out if you have a belt sander. In fact all you really need to do is cant the bevels in a touch, you don't have to take the bevel right down if it's not necessary for the work you intend to do.
Try Hindleys.com. They may be a bit cheaper than Flinns.

 

[Harbo]

I suppose you cannot give too much away Rob as I assume all will be revealed when your review is published?
But a few years ago I embarked on a similar test (for myself) on various makes of chisels. It was quickly curtailed as FWW published a comprehensive test using many more makes and a range of endurance tests that I could not possibly carry out with my limited facilities at home.
You could get a "feel" about them and compare fettling times but a lot of my findings were subjective and down to personal taste.
The out shot and on the magazines advice I bought LN and some Matsumura blue steel that I imported (cheaply at that time) from the States.
I have not been disappointed but I do look, occasionally, enviously at Blue Spruce.

Rod

 

[craig]

sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings on my first post but you had better be quick if you want the footprint chisels as they have gone into voluntary liquidation

 

[MIGNAL]

. . . and he's serious as well:

http://www.diyweek.net/news/news.asp?id=12302

 

[cadders75]

I brought 2 Footprint pareing Chisels from Tilgear and i still have not got the backs flat after a couple of weeks work, the steel seems tough but the finish leaves much to be desired IMO, saying that i have a couple of older Blue handled footprints which hold an excellent edge.

I would 2nd the advice about the AI bevel edge chisels i have a couple now and the Dovetail set and im very very happy with them.

 

[cutting42]

Well I have ordered 4 Footprint chisels from Hindleys, at 45 quid delivered seem a fairly safe investment despite the closure. When I get into dovetailing may grind the bevels down or buy a Isles dovetail.

So that's the chisels sorted now for the plane, I am thinking about a 60.5 from the new Stanley range or maybe the Rutland own make America steel pane but they are out of stock at the moment.

 

[bugbear]

Hiya

I started with an oilstone but this was not flat so neither were my blades. I then got a cheap diamond stone which worked ok but upgraded to CMT stones. I use a stanley honing guide similar to this axy one http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Honing-Guide-21261.htmguide to get the correct angle of dangle.

Right. I don't recommend that guide (I used to use one).

I would recommend an Eclipse type guide, either new, or (ideally) an original Eclipse #36 from a car boot for a quid. It's a VERY good guide for sharpening "normal" blade (e.g. chisels and bench planes).

The Veritas mk II is probably the best honing guide on the market, but quite expensive (i..e. more than a quid

If you only have diamond stones, you're NOT getting your edges sharp enough. Diamonds are simply not available in fine enough grits for final edge finishing. I would recommend going to a car shop, and getting the finets sheet of wet 'n' dry they have; this will probably be 1200 grit, although you might get lucky and obtain 2000 or even 2500 (in which case get some 1200 too).

Glue the sheet to something fairly flat (MDF would work well, or glass, or contiboard), and try using this "stone" after your finest diamond stone.

If you like the results, you can consider buying a more permanent "fine stone", although (in truth) the fine abrasive take the least wear in a sharpening system, so you could use the wet 'n' dry for quite a while.

BugBear