Chisel or technique?

[DTR]

You might be pleasantly surprised, numerous cheaper chisels these days (often made of CrV rather than a plain carbon steel) are of perfectly reasonable quality and will take a good edge and hold it well enough.

My "temporary" H*mebase chisels are still going strong after seven years of front-line service. Meanwhile I still have a box of vintage chisels that are waiting for new handles...........

 

[sunnybob]

Well at least you understand the quality of the "S" word.
But even with my pititful abilities I know that chisels go blunt very quickly.
Youre using a soft chisel on hard wood. I would recommend sharpening a lot more often with a chisel that soft.

And thats even after heeding what the experts have just said.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

An experienced worker could probably make a clean cut with a tool made from an old nail.

Funnily enough I was reading something just the other week which covered that almost exactly, making small tools from nails and other bits of mild steel using case hardening.

I had an elderly neighbour when I was at school who made miniature carts and farm wagons - nearly all his tools were repurposed Obos.

 

[bugbear]

I had an elderly neighbour when I was at school who made miniature carts and farm wagons - nearly all his tools were repurposed Obos.

That's cheating! a quick google reveals masonry nails to be 55-60 Rockwell, just the job.

They're a commonly recommended source for gauge points.

http://jcpfixings.co.uk/product/masonry-nails

Masonry Nails manufactured from austempered high carbon steel. Hardened and tempered on modern fully automatic equipment in a continuous process. High hardness with extremely high flexibility for absolute safety

BugeBear

 

[ED65]

...even clarity of presentation is not a reliably proxy.

Sadly true! Good on-topic example would be the three major books on sharpening: Leonard Lee's, Ron Hock's and the one more rarely mentioned by Thomas Lie-Nielsen.

I think it's fair to say that all three score points for clarity and while each book has its detractors I find all of them curate's eggs and IMO none are really the standalone references they set out to be.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

...even clarity of presentation is not a reliably proxy.

Sadly true! Good on-topic example would be the three major books on sharpening: Leonard Lee's, Ron Hock's and the one more rarely mentioned by Thomas Lie-Nielsen.

I think it's fair to say that all three score points for clarity and while each book has its detractors I find all of them curate's eggs and IMO none are really the standalone references they set out to be.

I'd like to add a fourth book - Jim Kingshott's 'Sharpening: The Complete Guide'. It's written very much for the person at the bench by a person who spent many years at the bench, so it's pretty down-to-earth, and doesn't delve too deeply into metallurgy or the minutiae of tool making or heat treatment. He also wrote an abridged version called 'The Sharpening Pocket Reference Book'. Both will have to be sourced second hand, though, I think.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

http://www.waterstonesmarketplace.com/b ... &hs=Submit

Both are there.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

As a relative beginner I have a few of observations:

1. Even cheap chisels will cut if properly sharpened - the edge may not last very long, they are not as pretty, and possibly not as comfortable to use. They may at the end of their useful life end up opening paint tins not valued as heirlooms.

2. For someone starting wood work it is best to have ONE method of sharpening and limited angles for plane blades and chisels. This may not provide the optimum solution for all types of wood, grain pattern etc - but will consistently deliver a tool which will provide adequate and generally acceptable performance.

3. Time and practice will allow changes to be made to the basic routine.

4. FWIW I studiously absorbed all of the advice on this forum. I have tried wetstones, oilstones etc. Didn't bother with scary sharp, didn't want to invest £300+ in a wetstone grinder. What I have settled on is a basic 3 piece sharpening kit following a course I went on which delivers consistent reasonably sharp results at a fairly low cost:

- Eclipse honing guide approx £6-8
- double sided diamond stone (1000/400 grit) approx £25 from Axminster
- leather honing pad on MDF - cost almost nothing

Cost low, performance (say) 8/10, can upgrade when I properly understand what I need.

 

[ScaredyCat]

Hi, 'tis me again

I've watched Peter's video, going to be watching it again as there's a lot to take in and then I'll be doing a review. I just wanted to show what a little bit of understanding, taught by someone who knows how to teach, did for me, I'm delighted and although my results aren't perfect, I know what I've done that's wrong and I know what to do to correct it.

Here's what it was like before...

This is what it's like now (yes it's the same chisel)

Thank you very much Peter ccasion5:



.

 

[bugbear]

Peter's video must be excellent - watching it has not only improved your chisel - it's improved your photography!

(seriously - kudos to all concerned)

BugBear

 

[Peter Sefton]

That's looking better ScaredyCat, I am very pleased you have found the video useful

What equipment have you used to improve the edge or which method did you use?

Cheers Peter

 

[Peter Sefton]

Peter's video must be excellent - watching it has not only improved your chisel - it's improved your photography!

(seriously - kudos to all concerned)

BugBear

BB, is it a bit like one of those before and after photos from an exercise DVD, first pic the bloke looks really unhappy in his sweaty torn old string vest but comes back lighter with a beaming grin, fresh hair cut, fake tan and a new set of clothes.

Cheers Peter

 

[ScaredyCat]

Peter's video must be excellent - watching it has not only improved your chisel - it's improved your photography!

The sun was out today and you can probably see I did it all by a window, but I also managed to borrow a half decent camera for these shots. That plus a few hours taking and retaking the pictures until I'd worked out how to focus it properly :lol:

That's looking better ScaredyCat, I am very pleased you have found the video useful

Very much so. I'll try not to be too gushing in my write up

What equipment have you used to improve the edge or which method did you use?

Before my post I'd got hold of some sharpening stones from Amazon, a company called Bearmoo. They do double sided whetstones like the one in your video, but I suspect not quite the same quality. I have two of them 250/800 and 400/1000. I'm already in trouble for using one of the best towels to lay everything on, it's not in a good state. I'd also ordered one of those Dakota (I think it's the same as the elipse one you refer to) honing guides like this:

To be honest it's quite a bit of trouble to use. The instructions on it were pretty dire, especially if you've never done any honing before. At first I had the chisel resting on the silver rods that hold the side plates on. Then I realised that perhaps the chisel needed to rest in the groves (1:30:41 in your video helped ) and then of course the gripping mechanism is really quite fiddly. Trying to keep 30mm/40mm of the chisel sticking out while tightening the knob on the side isn't easy when there's no support underneath and the side groves are dodgy at best. Of course when you've done that and started honing the chisel you look at the end and you think, that's not right, it looks slanted. So you check and it's not square in the holder and you have to start again. I swear it took me nearly 30 minutes to get it sorted out.

To add insult to injury, you sell the same device on your site for less than half of what I paid from Rutlands . At least I'm now aware of your site

I'll keep going with the stones for now, but I think I'll move to the 'scary sharp' film method at some point. It seems a lot cleaner, with less mess. I'd be interested to know if the Veritas system has similar issues. You made it look easy in the video and I see that it has the slide on part to act as a stop for the length but it did still look like you had to do a little finger gymnastics to get the chisel seated.

p.s. I only do my woodworking in a Mankini, no string vests. :wink:

 

[bridger]

An experienced worker could probably make a clean cut with a tool made from an old nail.

Funnily enough I was reading something just the other week which covered that almost exactly, making small tools from nails and other bits of mild steel using case hardening.

And if the nail is a masonry nail it will be decent enough steel to make a very good tool indeed.

 

[bugbear]

And if the nail is a masonry nail it will be decent enough steel to make a very good tool indeed.

That's an extremely good point.

BugBear

 

[AJB Temple]

Well done, OP. Result. Now you will get nice clean cuts.

You have one major problem - you are in serious danger of catching the sharpening bug. This is a slippery slope of obsession for many. I actually know one guy who has some chisels that he does not use in case he damages them.

 

[bugbear]

I actually know one guy who has some chisels that he does not use in case he damages them.

Does he live close to where you live?

BugBear

 

[AJB Temple]

Possibly!

 

[bugbear]

Trying to keep 30mm/40mm of the chisel sticking out while tightening the knob on the side isn't easy when there's no support underneath and the side groves are dodgy at best.

post308586.html?hilit=%20eclipse%20gauge#p308586

(there's also a piece underneath, so it's like a tiny bench hook)

BugBear

 

[Peter Sefton]

Peter's video must be excellent - watching it has not only improved your chisel - it's improved your photography!

The sun was out today and you can probably see I did it all by a window, but I also managed to borrow a half decent camera for these shots. That plus a few hours taking and retaking the pictures until I'd worked out how to focus it properly :lol:

That's looking better ScaredyCat, I am very pleased you have found the video useful

Very much so. I'll try not to be too gushing in my write up

What equipment have you used to improve the edge or which method did you use?

Before my post I'd got hold of some sharpening stones from Amazon, a company called Bearmoo. They do double sided whetstones like the one in your video, but I suspect not quite the same quality. I have two of them 250/800 and 400/1000. I'm already in trouble for using one of the best towels to lay everything on, it's not in a good state. I'd also ordered one of those Dakota (I think it's the same as the elipse one you refer to) honing guides like this:

To be honest it's quite a bit of trouble to use. The instructions on it were pretty dire, especially if you've never done any honing before. At first I had the chisel resting on the silver rods that hold the side plates on. Then I realised that perhaps the chisel needed to rest in the groves (1:30:41 in your video helped ) and then of course the gripping mechanism is really quite fiddly. Trying to keep 30mm/40mm of the chisel sticking out while tightening the knob on the side isn't easy when there's no support underneath and the side groves are dodgy at best. Of course when you've done that and started honing the chisel you look at the end and you think, that's not right, it looks slanted. So you check and it's not square in the holder and you have to start again. I swear it took me nearly 30 minutes to get it sorted out.

To add insult to injury, you sell the same device on your site for less than half of what I paid from Rutlands . At least I'm now aware of your site

I'll keep going with the stones for now, but I think I'll move to the 'scary sharp' film method at some point. It seems a lot cleaner, with less mess. I'd be interested to know if the Veritas system has similar issues. You made it look easy in the video and I see that it has the slide on part to act as a stop for the length but it did still look like you had to do a little finger gymnastics to get the chisel seated.

p.s. I only do my woodworking in a Mankini, no string vests. :wink:

I have not used the Bearmoo stones but if they are cutting they are working, so see how you get on with them no need to swap unless you have issues with them. It can be easy to dig in when learning to sharpen so keep going with these until you get used to the process.

The cheaper honing guides can be improved by a little filing in the grooves where the chisel should fit, sometimes the paint job on them looses all the accuracy. They do take a bit of practise to use but are good for standard angles. Setting the length of protection can be made easier with the use of a setting block made from timber, if I don't show it within the sharpening video it is in the grinding one. The Veritas guide comes into it's own for the more complex sharpening angles

Good the see the images of the chisels, best keep the pics of the Mankini to yourself

Cheers Peter