Career change - advice/suggestions/recommendations etc....

[Neil Dyball]

Hi All,

I've generally posted on the 'spinney world' forum in the past but have ventured over here in the hope that some of you might be able to give me a pointer or two. Sorry if any of the following is a bit rambling or disorganized but that will become clear as to why. At the moment my head is spinning with all sorts of ifs, buts and maybes.

I learned three days before Xmas that my 20 year career in I.T. (after 12 years in finance) may be coming to a very abrupt end, likely to find out for definite first fortnight in Jan. At 50, and living in rural Suffolk, further employment in I.T. looks pretty unlikely so a complete career change is on the cards. I'm a competent DIY'er, (my father was a 'general builder' and he and I have renovated my houses), and love all things 'woody'. I've done a 'DIY furniture making' course as leisure learning at the local college for a couple of years. I have also tackled any woodwork required, from rough carpentry to turning, second fix to furniture making, all with acceptable results using 'entry level' tools.

Given my background/interests, and the fact that I'd rather do something I love for considerably less money than something I hate for more, I'd appreciate any advice,suggestions etc. from anyone on my current thoughts, which are... There are a few small businesses locally making bespoke or reproduction furniture, specialist kitchens etc. and I'd like to try and get into one of them as a 'mature' apprentice/student/trainee. I realise things are tough for everybody at the moment but basically I'm willing to work 'cheap' for a fair while in order to prove my commitment to a potential employer. I'll get a redundancy cheque (of unknown size, but stat. min. circa £10k) that I can afford to invest in training/subsidising income as necessary.

So, some questions, in no particular order, for anybody who may have done something similar, taken someone on as a trainee in the past or have anything to contribute.

1. Is age a problem? In I.T. if you're over 35 you're on the scrapheap whereas age/experience in a 'craftsman' seems to be considered a plus, (and yes I realise that "craftsman" is some way off!) When I've interviewed 'junior' people I've always considered enthusiasm/motivation for the work at least as important as qualifications/skills, which can always be learned.

2. What level of 'trainee' salary expectation should I pitch at so as to appear keen but not desperate?

3. If you could do an extended training course, and I'm looking at fine furniture/cabinetmaking in all likelihood, what would you choose? The David Charlesworth/Marc Fish/Geoffrey Rowe courses are the first I've found in a brief Google, who else should I be considering? What would be the best magazines for adverts for these types of courses?

4. I'd consider my professional transferable skills, (apart from anything practical which needs to be honed as per item 3), as being; logical (almost to OCD!), meticulous attention to detail, able to follow detailed plans/instructions, able to manage projects to time, self-motivated, team leading (perhaps not particularly appropriate as a junior!). I can do a decent C.V. but is that what this type of 'practical' business is really looking for?

5. If anybody has answers to questions I haven't thought of yet please feel free to add any comment.

6. My head hurts now! I'm sure I'll think of more later but for now any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :?

Cheers,

Neil.

 

[stevebuk]

if all else fails Neil you could take up window cleaning in Lavenham, last time i was there the whole place's windows were a mess, upon asking i was told there is no window cleaner. :lol:

 

[joiner_sim]

Sorry to hear that you may be out of a job, as many others have also found out during the recession. In answer to your questions...
Age, I'd of said many employers consider age an advantage because of experience, but if you've not got trade experience some may be put off training someone who will be retiring soon.
If you are lucky enough to get to talk about money with them, I'd let them give you the offer. Many advertise their jobs as "meets nat. min wage" which means anything above, but I've started noticing they now advertise a starting wage of about £6.50, upwards dependant on experience. So anything between min wage and £6.5o to start on would be good with no trade experience.
Courses, an NVQ at the local college is as good as any and its a nationally rewcognised qualification.
I have been looking around at job advertisements in this trade and alot have been asking for a C.V. make this as good as possible because many are basing their decisions on these now on who to select to interview.
Hope that helps.

 

[wizer]

I suspect the advice you'll get from those in the business RE the courses, is that the kitchen/bedroom fitted furniture business is the most buoyant/lucrative. So training to make beautiful crafted one off pieces, might not be a wise choice.

I think you first need to have a drive round and sound out the owners of these local businesses.

 

[peter99]

Hi Neil

I think the question to ask yourself is to put yourself in the position of the business holder and think 'why should I employ a 50 year old in I.T. who might find the work too physical all day every day after a desk job, or set up in competition with me after I've trained him up'?

You've a lot to offer. You like doing it, have some good experience, will be reliable and sensible etc. You just need to convince them your up for it, can handle it physically and are in it for the long haul WITH THEM.

As for money, as said already, they'll pay you what they pay all trainees. Let them tell you. The offer of working for a month and if they don't like what they see they don't pay a penny and you go no questions asked will open a lot of doors, just check it's a decent firm and not after a months free labour.

Good luck

 

[kasandrich]

Please note the national minimum wage does not apply to trainees/apprentices.

My Son is a trainee electrician and he earns £46 a day, commutes up to 100 mile round trip in his own car (his governor does pay his diesel £10 for 100 mile) and often is out of the house for 13 hours plus including travel, to earn his £46 and if there is no work on he has a choice, take an upaid day or a day out of your 20 days holiday.

Its a hard life out there as an apprentice and they do not expect to make a living wage, if they didn't live with parents they could not do it.

 

[BradNaylor]

Given your background and experience with your father it sounds like you are eminently qualified to start work immediately as a self-employed handyman/carpenter doing all manner of work from putting shelves up to fitting kitchens.

Do you have a workshop at home? If so, this could be utilised for the making of pieces of fitted furniture which you can then install. There is an almost unlimited demand for this kind of work and it pays well, particularly if you keep your costs under control.

You mention 'fine cabinetmaking'. Unfortunately there are very few people able to make a good living in this way. Why do you think all the best furniture makers do teaching on the side?

By all means do a course with one of these guys; do it for yourself though, not expecting it to open up a lucrative career.

Cheers
Brad

 

[Neil Dyball]

Thanks for all the advice & comments guys.

There's definitely two different routes there, which I lumped together in a jumble. The two companies I know of making high quality furniture, and then the companies making fitted kitchens/bedrooms etc.

If I was fortunate enough to get the possibility of a foot in the door at the former I'd just been mulling around the idea of a 13 week course, or similar, at my own expense with a recognised pro to kick-start things. The stuff they put out is very expensive and certainly constitutes 'fine cabinetmaking'. However, for the other category this type of training would obviously be a waste of time/money, as you've pointed out, if I was going to be working on machines making veneered MDF kitchen units!

I do have a small workshop (single garage) with some basic machines and hand tools so I could possibly start making small pieces/doing handyman stuff if there's a call for it, and build up tools as necessary, the £10k would help there. I've never done the self-employed route but maybe this is the push I need. It's at least something else to consider so thanks for the idea.

As for working on a 'sale or return' basis that's a good idea too, might just convince someone to give me a chance for a month where they might not otherwise.

It's all a bit woolly at the moment, but hopefully in a few days time I'll be thinking more clearly.

Cheers,

Neil.

 

[The Shark]

Hi Neil,
I'm not in a position to give advice, but I hope everything works out for the best, whatever route you decide to go down.

Malc

 

[ondablade]

I'd be a bit cautious about the apprenticeship idea. Many will feel that an older guy won't commit. You anyway with skills, work and life experience can make a much greater contribution, but this seems unlikely to be drawn on or be a comfortable fit in a formal apprenticeship.

What if you were to seek out somebody already well established in the business, and look to cut some sort of a deal where you could help with (and learn) the business and admin side, and at the same time learn some cabinet making?

The other alternative could be that you go self employed as some sort of IT support guy and woodwork on the side - smaller businesses often need that sort of help.

A good place to help generate some bigger perspectives is often a self help book like 'What Colour is Your Parachute', or if you want to get more heavily into your psychology say 'Do What You Are', by Barron Tieger.

These things usually sort themselves out for the better if you can stay easy enough to be flexible and go with the flow. Don't get idealistic, seek to use your skills, be broad minded but not indiscriminate, and don't let the possible negativity of the current situation persuade you into giving yourself away for nothing.

Hang on to your redundo for emergencies or investment in real opportunities ...

ian

 

[Oryxdesign]

Up until last year I was looking for someone like you! My advice is get out there, look up joinery and kitchen companies, find out who owns them and get yourself round there. Do some research on their business and arm yourself with questions and appear knowledgeable and enthusiastic and you'll get a job. On the other hand you might find you have to work very hard for less than you're used to.

Simon

 

[lurker]

Follow Brad's excellent advice as a "part -time" occupation & see if it takes off.
An odd job handyman also capable of fixing computers looks like a good range of skills to me. The joke about window cleaning is not so daft either!

A bloke has set himself up near us just helping people to get their newly bought gadgets working

I'd strongly recommend you spent no time & money chasing a dream.
Be aware there are lots of folk out there fully qualified & experienced in these jobs & they are struggling.

Hope things work out OK - you priority is to screw as much as possible (even if its only breathing space) out of you current employer - don't get too distracted from this.

 

[LocalOak]

If I may I think there is another thing to think about as well. I don't know what part of IT you come from but I used to earn little bits and pieces by offering to set up/sort out people's PC problems. I'd not necessarily suggest it as a career, but it could well be a useful way of earning a few bob. A cheap add in the local paper/freesheet/website offering to help with setting up home networks, installing a suitable antivirus system or whatever may well get you a bit of work.

What I'd emphasise here is that I found people wanted someone they trusted and found friendly to do what they probably could if they had the time and patience themselves.

Just a thought.

Good luck

Toby

 

[Mike Wingate]

Become a teacher. You will probably get paid to be a student. There may be a payment after your first year. Very short working day, finsh at 3.30 with an hour for lunch. You only have to teach kids, so you don't need to know much, and all those holidays.

 

[Beardo16]

Up until last year I was looking for someone like you! My advice is get out there, look up joinery and kitchen companies, find out who owns them and get yourself round there. Do some research on their business and arm yourself with questions and appear knowledgeable and enthusiastic and you'll get a job. On the other hand you might find you have to work very hard for less than you're used to.

Simon

Simon, you stat that you were looking for someone up until last year.

If you were to be approached about the opening opportunity, what means of communication would you find the most suitable?

I know a few people who would not accept emails as it shows people have not used the initiative to have face to face contact.

This does not just go for Simon but for anyone else who work for themselves.

Adam

 

[Oryxdesign]

Up until last year I was looking for someone like you! My advice is get out there, look up joinery and kitchen companies, find out who owns them and get yourself round there. Do some research on their business and arm yourself with questions and appear knowledgeable and enthusiastic and you'll get a job. On the other hand you might find you have to work very hard for less than you're used to.

Simon

Simon, you stat that you were looking for someone up until last year.

If you were to be approached about the opening opportunity, what means of communication would you find the most suitable?

I know a few people who would not accept emails as it shows people have not used the initiative to have face to face contact.

This does not just go for Simon but for anyone else who work for themselves.

Adam

Maybe an introductory email but I like to see people face to face. Infact anybody is welcome to drop in for a cup of tea and a chat.

 

[devonwoody]

Stick some adverts up immediately in some of your local papers and see how many responses you receive.

Then you will have an idea if the things you would like to do would be viable.

 

[BradNaylor]

Become a teacher. You will probably get paid to be a student. There may be a payment after your first year. Very short working day, finsh at 3.30 with an hour for lunch. You only have to teach kids, so you don't need to know much, and all those holidays.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[woodbloke]

Become a teacher. You will probably get paid to be a student. There may be a payment after your first year. Very short working day, finsh at 3.30 with an hour for lunch. You only have to teach kids, so you don't need to know much, and all those holidays.

I assume that was said in jest...no smilies. Not the wisest council I've ever seen on the forum. Not a good idea IMO, I know...I've been there :wink: - Rob

 

[chippy1970]

Be aware there are lots of folk out there fully qualified & experienced in these jobs & they are struggling.

Tell me about it oh well lets hope 2010 is better