Can't cut, won't cut!

[GLFaria]

Judging from the pictures, I would venture saying the mouth on your plane might be a bit too open.
Also, 2-4 mm from the cap-iron to the edge is definitely too much. 1-1,5 mm is as far as I will go, most of the times less. And the mouth width should go with it, unless you want to generate chips, not shavings...
I do not do very fine work, neither do I usually need to remove lots of wood. So I do not camber the blades on my planes, and I keep the mouth width at about maybe 1mm or a little over, and the cap-iron at most the same from the edge of the iron.

Sometining I have seen on many Stanleys, especially those of the Handyman variety (blaaaghhh...) is a "dip" at the front side of the mouth - meaning that the sole may be flat overall, but it is wanting just where flatness is most critical for good shaving formation. I seem to see a sligth shadow in one of the pictures that may indicate this situation. If it is so, just flattening overall is not enought - you must take material off the sole until this "dip" is eliminated and the front lip of the sole contacts the wood fully. A lot of work, believe me, and tiresome too...

 

[MMUK]

Looks pretty blunt to me I'm afraid

 

[Trafalgar]

... and rusty too. Surely, this cutter could not possibly have been ground, honed, and stropped.....

 

[Jacob]

In your first photo it looks like one of those aftermarket heavy plane blades. I'd bin it and use the original thin blade instead. Freehand sharpen and you get a camber (which you definitely need) whether you like it or not. Make life easier for yourself!

 

[ohms12]

The picture makes it look like that, but there's no rust on the blade, it was sharpened until there was an even burr along the back edge and then stropped. I sharpen all my knives this way, they're sharp enough to cut hair from my hand (which is what I tested it with).

The rusty colour you see there is a reflection from the wood on the bench.

 

[ohms12]

Judging from the pictures, I would venture saying the mouth on your plane might be a bit too open.
Also, 2-4 mm from the cap-iron to the edge is definitely too much. 1-1,5 mm is as far as I will go, most of the times less. And the mouth width should go with it, unless you want to generate chips, not shavings...
I do not do very fine work, neither do I usually need to remove lots of wood. So I do not camber the blades on my planes, and I keep the mouth width at about maybe 1mm or a little over, and the cap-iron at most the same from the edge of the iron.

Sometining I have seen on many Stanleys, especially those of the Handyman variety (blaaaghhh...) is a "dip" at the front side of the mouth - meaning that the sole may be flat overall, but it is wanting just where flatness is most critical for good shaving formation. I seem to see a sligth shadow in one of the pictures that may indicate this situation. If it is so, just flattening overall is not enought - you must take material off the sole until this "dip" is eliminated and the front lip of the sole contacts the wood fully. A lot of work, believe me, and tiresome too...

Thanks for that, i'll try bringing the blade further across the mouth and see if it helps, as well as reducing the distance to the cap.

With regards to the mouth of the sole, it certainly does look as if it's not quite evenly flat, i'll have a look into that too.

I appreciate your replies folks - i'm gonna have a go at it tonight when I get back from work.

 

[GLFaria]

Just to try and explain better what I mean concerning that "dip", see the schematic diagram below. The sole should press the surface of the wood right up to the mouth. Unfortunately, that is not always the case, especially when it comes to low-grade planes (it should not be your case, seeing it is a pre-70's Stanley; but one never knows, and it is a good thing to check). I have had to correct this on two planes and believe me, it was no fun at all.

There are several good books on planes around. "The handplane book" by Garrett Hack is a very good one, and the one I like best.

 

[ohms12]

Ahh, thanks for that explanation! I don't think i've got a bevel on the back side, but I'll double check. I re-sharpened the iron and cleaned up the bottom of the frog, brought the chip breaker closer and made the mouth opening slightly smaller. The back of the iron wasn't actually flat, took me a wee while to totally flatten that out.

When adjusting the iron I did notice something strange, it's as if the iron maybe has a twist in it?

So in this image you can see the mouth of the plane, with the iron sticking out a tad - and it's perfectly straight and even across the mouth.


This image shows the mouth close up, yes I see that it looks as if the bevel is totally uneven. Trust me that it isn't! At the same time as being straight from one angle, it's clearly skew whiff when looking at a front elevation. Is there a twist in my iron?!



As a result, I thought maybe my frog was set incorrectly, so I adjusted it to allow the left hand side to stick out a little further. As you can see, the frog is in no way straight, yet I still have this strange twist.



Oh and here's a pic of the bevel - it's certainly sharp. I didn't strop this time either.



*shakes head in confusion*

 

[JimF.]

Oh and here's a pic of the bevel - it's certainly sharp. I didn't strop this time either.



*shakes head in confusion*

It may just be the photo, but that bevel looks pretty rough to me. I can see really deep scratches on your bevel left by grinding. Sharpen it properly, then see how it does.

I am no professional but even my cheap two sided builders merchant oilstone and leather strop give a shinier result that you are getting.

There has to be a happy medium between the fanatical pursuit of a mirror like finish when sharpening and where you're at: which could be described as agricultural. Your plane blade seems to have an edge more like I might put on my scythe.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I remain convinced that the cutting edge is your problem. The bevel is rounded over - more a collection of bevels at various angles really. To raise a wire edge there is a tendency to hone at ever increasing angles until there is no relief angle left behind the cutting edge, and the blade rides on the surface of the bevel without the edge touching the workpiece. May still be sharp, but can't cut.

This is one reason I still like to use a guide for plane irons. If you are at all erratic with your angle, it takes just a stroke or two to remove the tiny bit of metal needed to dub over the edge, but a great many strokes to remove all the metal behind it to correct your error.

 

[MMUK]

Oh and here's a pic of the bevel - it's certainly sharp. I didn't strop this time either.

This is what a SHARP bevel looks like :wink:

 

[bugbear]

As a result, I thought maybe my frog was set incorrectly, so I adjusted it to allow the left hand side to stick out a little further. As you can see, the frog is in no way straight, yet I still have this strange twist.

Ah hah! Your frog is FAR too far back - the blade cannot possibly sit nicely on the frog surface (the bedding surface) since the sole is not at all coplanar with it.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Frog needs to be dead in line with the back of the mouth. Sight it both ways to make sure it's all in one plane. This way the back of the blade gets maximum support where it most needs it. Frogs are said to be adjustable but this isn't realistic - best left in one place, dead flush.
Is that an old plane? Looks a bit too black/shiny and the blade looks new. If it's a new Stanley (of the old pattern) it's probably a dud all round.

 

[ohms12]

As a result, I thought maybe my frog was set incorrectly, so I adjusted it to allow the left hand side to stick out a little further. As you can see, the frog is in no way straight, yet I still have this strange twist.

Ah hah! Your frog is FAR too far back - the blade cannot possibly sit nicely on the frog surface (the bedding surface) since the sole is not at all coplanar with it.

BugBear

Okay, I had moved it back intentionally and at an angle because I was trying to figure out why my blade was protruding at such a strange angle. I'll try moving it forward.

For those who're obsessing over the blade sharpness, when I received the blade it was totally dull, had loads of deep scratches and was pitted badly. I've taken most of that out, I know it's not a mirror finish but I wasn't going for that. I have the stones to polish to 1200 (diamond stones), I honestly didn't believe I'd need to go any further - seems like overkill to me. With regards to the pic looking like a collection of bevels, I took that picture with a hard studio light intentionally. I'm fully aware of how it looks in pictures, it looks much much worse than in person. Here's another side elevation pic, I honestly don't see a collection of bevels there

 

[ohms12]

Frog needs to be dead in line with the back of the mouth. Sight it both ways to make sure it's all in one plane. This way the back of the blade gets maximum support where it most needs it. Frogs are said to be adjustable but this isn't realistic - best left in one place, dead flush.
Is that an old plane? Looks a bit too black/shiny and the blade looks new. If it's a new Stanley (of the old pattern) it's probably a dud all round.

Yeah I'll adjust it back so it's flush and see how I get on. Yes it's an old plane, going by the rosewood handles, silver adjustment knob and the markings on the lateral lever I believe it's post war, maybe 50s or 60s. Maybe earlier (brass knobs weren't used during the war, due to cost). The insides are shiny because I made them so.

 

[Trafalgar]

The grinding/honing angle looks too high to my eyes. I think you've lost proper clearance. Could be a photographic artifact but if I'm right it would explain some of your problems.

 

[MMUK]

That does look a bit too steep. It looks to be around 35 degrees or more. You could do with taking it down to a shallower angle around 25 degrees. It doesn't have to be precise but you'll struggle at that angle unless you have an adjustable angle frog to compensate.

 

[ohms12]

I haven't changed the angle of the iron, i've just sharpened the angle that was previously there. Might go find me something so I can measure it.

 

[Jacob]

30 to 35º is OK but yes you do need to know. At 30º the width of the bevel is twice the thickness of the blade, assuming a straight bevel with no rounding over or other variations.

 

[Carl P]

I'd sharpen with a honing guide, just because it'll mean one more thing you can be certain of.

Cheerio,

Carl