Buying spree... advice/sense needed...

[davy_owen_88]

Hey guys, I'm moving into a new workshop in a few weeks and am going to be ditching my hobby tools in exchange for bigger better ones.

I'm trying to get everything from axminster so I only get charged one heavy goods handling fee and according to their website the delivery guys will go the extra mile and help you bring it into the workshop - something, from experience not many will do.

On my list so far is:

Jet 54A 150mm Planer
Jet JPM13CSX Thicknesser
Axminster Plus SBW4300WL Bandsaw
Axminster Extreme 4 Silent Compressor

And a table saw, which leads me onto my first question. Could someone explain the advantages/disadvantages of having a sliding table on a table saw? The Perform saw from axminster is currently the only saw I'm contemplating, all the others are too small or too expensive.

I primarily build guitars and intend to extend to building speaker cabinets and also pedalboards with the odd bit of furniture here and there so if someone could explain if a sliding table is a worthwhile purchase for my needs then I'd be glad to hear it.

Otherwise I like the look of the SIP 01332 (I read a review on here and it looks a sturdy product, I currently have a SIP 6" planer and thats performed brilliantly too) I have gone the extra mile to ensure I have quiet tools so since the SIP has an induction motor it seems like a good choice. What motor does the perform have?

Is it worthwhile spending an extra £380 to gain 50mm of jointer width and 120mm of table length?

And finally my last question. I'm not in any way against ordering from other places if the price is right so does anyone have any suggestions to alternate tools that will perform as good or better for the same price or less?

If you can help me out now I'll be very grateful. I don't want to mess up when spending this amount of money but I really do want the best quality, lowest noise level and best value.

Sorry for the long boring post and thanks in advance for any help given.

Davy

 

[MikeW]

Hi Davy,

I cannot help on advising on a table saw--me being here and you being there. I just wanted to confirm the Powermatic 54A is a great planer. I assume the Jet version is the same as the PM version.

I had mine for several years and it was one of those tools one just didn't give much thought to. It just worked well day after day.

Take care, Mike

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Davy

Is it worthwhile spending an extra £380 to gain 50mm of jointer width and 120mm of table length?

IMHO, yes. The Jet 60A takes up little more floor space than the 54A and, as you say, you get the extra width and length.

Enjoy.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Philly]

Davy
I have the Jet54a and also the bandsaw-both are great tools. Accurate, powerful and reliable. I give them the big thumbs up!
As to capacity of the planer, sometimes I wish I went for the 8 inch but then again I do love to use hand planes so any excuse is good for me :wink:
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Anonymous]

I'd really think about buying some machines second hand, much better value for your money.
If you know what your looking for ebay can be good, but if not go to your nearest machinery dealer, source what you want and ask for some sort of warranty on the lot.

 

[davy_owen_88]

Cheers guys!

It seems I'll be getting the Jet 60 A - I love working with hand tools, carving the neck and body contours with a spokeshave is my favourite part of the guitar building process, but when it comes to taking a rough board and accurately sizing them and joining them together I don't really trust myself, and I don't have years to practice the art so I think the extra 2 inchs will be well worth it.

The bandsaw seems like the best I can find for the price. And have read a few good reviews.

No-ones mentioned anything about the thicknesser, is it a new thicknesser because when I did a search on the forum nothing came up either. Any other thicknessers with an induction motor that I should check out?

I'm pretty set in my ways about the compressor, it seems like a good price and an even better noise level.

Still pretty disappointed in axminster for carrying such a poor selection of table saws. Theres a few small table top saws, the Perform saw and then £1000+ saws.

I'm still open to suggestions to alternate tools so any more advice is welcome.

Davy

 

[johnelliott]

And a table saw, which leads me onto my first question. Could someone explain the advantages/disadvantages of having a sliding table on a table saw?

The advantages of a sliding table on a table saw are considerable, so much so that it wouldn't occur to me to buy one that didn't have a good sliding table. Making cabinets calls for lots of accurate cross cutting of boards to at least the 600mm width. How else are you going to do that?

There's lots of other advantages as well, you will discover these when you start to use it

John

 

[ike]

I'm trying to get everything from axminster so I only get charged one heavy goods handling fee

The 'one stop shop' strategy is more convenient. But you are going to make a substantial investment in equipment you want to remain happy with for a long time.

My experience is that generally you get a wider choice, more likely end up with stuff that'll tick all your boxes, and more than recoup on delivery costs by shopping around (cherry picking) a number of suppliers. That goes for anything really- not just WW stuff.

cheers,

Ike

Ike

 

[Tarkin]

Otherwise I like the look of the SIP 01332 (I read a review on here and it looks a sturdy product, I currently have a SIP 6" planer and thats performed brilliantly too)

I'm reasonably sure that the big Perform saw and the SIP 01332 are infact the same saw for the same Tiawaneese factory. Alot of the perform stuff is of the generic 'avaliable as lots of other brands' (SIP, Clarke etc) type. Have used the SIP version (allbeit without the sliding table) and it was really nice, especially as it can be picked up for less than 500 quid new...

 

[NickZ]

And a table saw, which leads me onto my first question. Could someone explain the advantages/disadvantages of having a sliding table on a table saw? The Perform saw from axminster is currently the only saw I'm contemplating, all the others are too small or too expensive.

I primarily build guitars and intend to extend to building speaker cabinets and also pedalboards with the odd bit of furniture here and there so if someone could explain if a sliding table is a worthwhile purchase for my needs then I'd be glad to hear it.

Speakers mean sheetstock. My interest in a saw with a sliding table is to make life easier with sheet stock.

 

[davy_owen_88]

Thanks guys, sure have given me plenty of stuff to think about. I probably will end up shopping around for the best deal. I don't really want to go down the second hand route as I want full warranty but there are still some new items on the bay that are competetively priced so maybe...

I think I'll get the compressor and bandsaw from Axminster in the next few days since thats what I need the most and then shop around for a planer, thicknesser, dust extraction system and a tablesaw.

Would anyone be interested in any of the following:

SIP 6" planer - knifes will need a touch up, but are in pretty good condition.
Record RSDE1 with 5 spare submicron filters.
Loads of 100mm flex-hose, metal ducting and accessories.
Draper 190mm bandsaw...

They'll be up for sale as soon as the new workshop is set up, and I'll be letting them go for very cheap, so if anyones interested so I dont have to put them on eBay just let me know.

 

[ByronBlack]

Davey

For cutting sheet-goods for your speaker cabinets, have you thought about a Festool, or Mafell Circular saw and guide system?

I've done a lot of research recently, and come to the conclusion that for cutting sheet material, the Festool is an excellent and safer alternative to feeding sheet material into a table saw.

I've also made a few guitars over the last year or so, and I can't see that i've ever felt the need for a table-saw, I did almost all my cutting on the bandsaw. I had a Jet JWB14" which was superb - would definitly buy another, and was great for cutting necks.

 

[davy_owen_88]

Hey ByronBlack, the main reason I want a table saw is because I prepare all the timber I use myself, and even the best bandsaw won't cut a perfectly parallel face as good or as quickly as a table saw.

Also cutting a number of sheets the same size for the cabs with a guide and C/S is far more time consuming.

Not to mention I love making other things aswell, even though I don't really get the time, or have the space to in my current workshop, so I'm pretty set of getting a T/S, its just such a pain to chose one, with all the choice around.

 

[ByronBlack]

Fair enough davey - although I also prepared all my timber, basically I made the first cut on the bandsaw and created the perfect face edges/sides using the planer, a TS is no nessacarily needed for that operation, but can understand you want the TS for other uses.

Have you looked at the Jet or Axminster TS's, i've heard very good things about them, and it's in my opinion worth saving to get a really good one from the start.

 

[RogerM]

Davey - if you could pick up this one at a sensible price it would be a good buy, and definitely worth the journey to collect.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SCHEPPACH-2500i-T ... dZViewItem

 

[Scrit]

I've done a lot of research recently, and come to the conclusion that for cutting sheet material, the Festool is an excellent and safer alternative to feeding sheet material into a table saw.

Actually that depends on where you are starting from..... If you use a portable circular saw to do the rough break-down then follow-up by using a circular saw with a run-off table to do the final sizing then the circular saw will be quicker, more accurate and have (consistent) repeatability. It will also be faster. I agree that you need a big table saw to handle 8 x 4 sheets uncut safely - in fact I reckon that without a proper panel saw it sometimes borders on the downright foolhardy - but I used to break-down with a portable saw and then finish to size on a 12in table saw/sliding carraige (Wadkin). The wastage was higher, but then so was the accuracy. That saw also allowed me to do joinery-type crosscuts and dimension ripping of solid wood - neither task done well (or even safely) on a portable saw/rail system. The downside to using a table saw with a carraige is that the length of crosscut may well be limited by the size of your workshop; I reckon that with the average 1 car garage you'd be pushed to crosscut much longer than 4 feet (length) unless the saw was on castors or a turntable and could be rotated through 90 degrees.

My current workshop houses a full-blown 3.2 metre panel saw, but I still break-down the biggest sheets or "jumbos" (2.6/2.8 x 2.0 metres) using a Bosch circular saw and a rail - although a cheap Skil saw with a decent blade, a batten and two clamps would do almost as well for my purposes.

If it were just for joinery then the choice would be simpler: table saw without a carraige but with a 12in blade for ripping, SCMS or RAS for crosscutting and mitres and that's that. It's the addition of the panel materials which biases me towards a table saw with a carraige as well.

Scrit

 

[Mike.C]

Philly,

Davy
I have the Jet54a and also the bandsaw-both are great tools. Accurate, powerful and reliable. I give them the big thumbs up[/quote

Hi Davy

davy_owen_88 wrote:
Is it worthwhile spending an extra £380 to gain 50mm of jointer width and 120mm of table length?


IMHO, yes. The Jet 60A takes up little more floor space than the 54A and, as you say, you get the extra width and length.

I agree with Philly and Neil, the Jet 54A is an excellent saw, but if I was buying a planer today I would go for the 64A. IMHO when finishing a piece of timber there is no difference whatsoever between the two, but I think that the extra width and lenght would come in handy sometimes.

Roger,

Davey - if you could pick up this one at a sensible price it would be a good buy, and definitely worth the journey to collect.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SCHEPPACH-2500i-T ... dZViewItem

I also agree with Roger if you can get the Scheppach for a decent price you would have a very nice saw. I love my one and IMHO a table saw isn't a table saw without the sliding table.
That said, if you do take the used route, you can pick up some lovely Professional type cast iron saws (Wadkin for instance) for very little money. And because of the new rules introduced not long ago, this is certainly the time to buy them, because a lot of the professional workshops had to get rid of theirs.

If you do get all your machines from Axminster, you will want a nice discount for the amount you are going to spend.

Good luck with your new workshop.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Scrit]

That said, if you do take the used route, you can pick up some lovely Professional type cast iron saws (Wadkin for instance) for very little money.

Yes.... but relatively less trade machines will have a sliding table. A typical joinery shop would probably go down the path of having a rip saw AND a crosscut - saves the time swapping blades. The cabinetmaker's machinery, which you are more likely to find with sliding table, will throw up as many or more Startrites as Wadkins, however a sliding table Startrite will probably cost £400 to £800 (or more) on eBay (clean TA1250s typically fetch £1200 to £1500). Plus a Startrite is far more likely to be single phase that a Wadkin - single-phase Wadkins are like hen's teeth, rare. Whilst I'm in favour of the Wadkin AGS, not all AGSs can be readily converted to single phase - for example some of the AGS12s have a peculiar design of motor with a cast-in L-shaped flange-foot and (three phase only) where there is no single phase equivalent available - so caveat emptor!

And because of the new rules introduced not long ago, this is certainly the time to buy them, because a lot of the professional workshops had to get rid of theirs.

Sorry, but not the impression I've got! At least not the majority. The biggest cost penalty has been guards and tooling which tended to affect spindle moulders a lot more. The first part of PUWER98 (braking on circular saws) became mandatory 2-1/2 years back (5 Dec 2003) and many firms went down the path of retro-fitting braking onto their existing equipment if the condition was anywhere near acceptable to start with. However, many of the one man bands I know are still ignoring the rules because they are of the opinion that they don't apply to the self-employed (very grey area, that) and the likelihood of getting a visit from the HSE is near to zero (true). If a firm is willing to pay £3,000 plus for a new saw over £350 to £500 for a brake to be retro fitted the question must surely be "Why?". In fact, apart from a small rush to get rid of old kit in the 12 months after the legislation came in the quantity and quality of secondhand kit coming onto the market has if anything diminished over recent years as machinery dealers have taken to exporting old stock to Eastern Europe, Africa and the Far East. Over the last 7 to 8 years we have seen a major shrinkage in the woodworking sector in the UK - the fact that in the last 5 years the country's biggest dozen or so machinery dealers have either retired (early in several cases), downsized or gone bust (Calder-Wilkinson) in this period is more indicative of what is happening in the machinery market. There certainly isn't the sort of glut where you'd pick-up an AGS for £50 - they're worth more than that if you weight them in for scrap!

Personally I'd be very wary of suggesting to someone who has never had a circular saw before that they buy a secondhand industrial machine which probably needs converting to single phase - I think there are a lot of pitfalls to doing this unless you have someone to advise you ot you have the mechanical and electrical aptitude required to make an old machine safe.

Just playing Devil's Advocate :wink:

Scrit

 

[davy_owen_88]

Roger, that Scheppach does look like a nice deal, but theres no way I could go and collect it. I think I'm stuck buying new tools.

I've been sold on the need for a sliding table, but I will wait a bit and get the tablesaw from somewhere besides Axminster so I have more choice.

Still no words on the Jet thicknesser? Its the one tool I haven't heard anything about.

Keep the suggestions coming though guys, it's really helping me out.

Cheers,
Davy

 

[RogerS]

Roger, that Scheppach does look like a nice deal, but theres no way I could go and collect it.

No but Palletline will. If your seller can get hold of a pallet and get the saw onto it then Palletline will do the rest and deliver it to your door. Cost about £50.

I've just taken delivery of my first two pallets and it worked pretty seamlessly.