Blowtorch

[skronk]

Hi all,

Know nothing about metalwork, but I want to twist and bend some Irwin clamps. About 10 of them, so no big job. Can someone point me toward a cost effective way to do this as I know zilch about blowtorches, and paying £40 plus to do such a small job is not cost effective.

Would one of the small camping gas type torches heat the metal enough to bend it. Big saving in cost !!

I don't plumb or anything like that so when the job is done the torch will sit in garage......rotting !

Thanks.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It's probably more economic to pay someone else to do them. Even if you spend £n on a torch, you'll probably need to buy a hose and a gas bottle.

 

[skronk]

It's probably more economic to pay someone else to do them. Even if you spend £n on a torch, you'll probably need to buy a hose and a gas bottle.

The old boy who did the first for me used a hand held torch thing. The sort of thing you buy a refill bottle for. Not a hose or large tank. Unfortunately, he will take no payment under any circumstances so I want to buy a torch of my own !!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I was imagining larger clamps. Ask the guy. Find out what he drinks. (Isle of Skye, might not be difficult ) Job done.

 

[skronk]

I know.

Still want to buy a small one of my own.

 

[blackrodd]

I would be careful with the blow torch items Wickes sell, the last one i bought to do a job was sodding useless, difficult to light and when needing to warm or heat stuff on the bench, thing went haywire, like a ww2 flamethrower, really dangerous. Had the devils own job to get a refund!
Get a primus, or camping gaz from homebase or similar, My son uses a little Gaz torch sized sometimes when mechanicing, how hot are we talking here? They should get you cherry red on the small bars with the camping gaz, primus size.
I suggest you make a point and mention the dangerous and "mad flaring" that some do and ask about the chance of a refund in the likely hood of this. Regards Rodders

 

[dickm]

Not knowing the size of the clamps, it's surprising if a normal Gaz torch (the sort that sits on top of the cylinder) gives enough heat to get to red. I'f you are going to try, certainly get a proper one, but also make yourself a hearth out of firebricks, to keep the heat together. Doing it in free air seems to me unlikely to succeed.

 

[skronk]

Not knowing the size of the clamps, it's surprising if a normal Gaz torch (the sort that sits on top of the cylinder) gives enough heat to get to red. I'f you are going to try, certainly get a proper one, but also make yourself a hearth out of firebricks, to keep the heat together. Doing it in free air seems to me unlikely to succeed.

The old boy worked free hand. The clamps are only 300mm in length and the bar about 10-12mm thick.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

He was probably using mapp gas. You won't do that in a cheap torch, iirc.

 

[skronk]

He lives a few miles away. I will take a drive over and ask him.

 

[xy mosian]

As far as I know Camping Gaz is Butane, Primus is Propane. Propane burns hotter. When I changed the reduction in the leaks in my plumbing was fantastic.
I re-straightened a Woden G-cramp a number of years ago with a very firm vice an a sturdy, heavy, bench and a long lever.
xy

 

[MMUK]

It's likely if he uses MAPP gas then his torch will be a Rothenberger as used by plumbers. You will probably baulk at the price of those though, probably more than double what you quoted above. Cheap torches can't use MAPP gas, it burns too hot.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I looked at the price of repair kits for one of mine - it's only the ignition that's gone. :shock: It can stay gone. I did get lucky though - I bought the miniature Rothenberger torch with 3/4 cylinder of mapp gas for a fiver at a car boot.

 

[xy mosian]

It's likely if he uses MAPP gas then his torch will be a Rothenberger as used by plumbers. You will probably baulk at the price of those though, probably more than double what you quoted above. Cheap torches can't use MAPP gas, it burns too hot.

Spot on, I hope I never really cannot do without one, for the price you know.
xy

 

[Eric The Viking]

+1 for Rothenberger.

I started off with a Primus/Sievert hand held refillable (they were the first to sell cyclone burners). I bought the cylinder, which Primus now won't believe. It's propane. It's good, but the refill price is stupid now, and the valve has always been a PITA to adjust properly (the liquid trap has never worked - invert the thing and it's a flamethrower).

I borrowed a friend's Rothenberger and was hooked - easy to use, really controllable, and refills are a lot less hassle (Toolstation carry the refills. Most of the local plumbers merchants no longer carry Primus refills - you have to trek down to their depot, which is miles out of my way).

Don't buy a knock-off copy of the Rothenberger torch though. The genuine one is worth it. I bought a cheapie, and it leaked, and was hard to control, and eventually the piezo igniter failed. I now have a very secondhand Rothenberger, that looks horrid but will probably long outlast me.

The Rothenberger takes both MAPP and Propane cylinders. MAPP is very fierce, which personally I like, but having propane handy is good in case you need more subtlety. For bending steel, go MAPP. I use mine to harden and temper chisels too (both MAPP and propane together).

My only regret is that I have a range of nozzles for the Primus for different jobs, such as paint stripping and small soldering jobs, as well as the cyclone burner, which is outstanding still, 30 years on. I haven't found the same for Rothenberger torches. I've got this one (below). The MAPP gas is yellow, Propane is red. Toolstation don't (or didn't) sell the gas online - it's in the printed catalogue or you can just ask at the counter. I'm not sure if they'll send it as I've never tried to order it that way.

[Edit: Just noticed: That's a Primus/Sievert cylinder on the right - doesn't fit Rothenberger, but it's not my picture!]

 

[Doug B]

Ive used a couple of these for over 20 years.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/prod ... tube-valve

That price doesn't include the bottle but they aren't expensive, my local plumbers merchant is cheaper for the torch so might be worth trying your local merchant.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Ive used a couple of these for over 20 years.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/prod ... tube-valve

That price doesn't include the bottle but they aren't expensive, my local plumbers merchant is cheaper for the torch so might be worth trying your local merchant.

That's the one I have (that turns into a flamethrower).

Also the picture is a bit misleading although the text makes it clear - that's for just the valve and tube - no cylinder nor actual burner.

Although I usually use a Rothenburger now with MAPP gas, you really can't beat the cyclone burner for the Sievert ones. I don't think they sell the burner I have any more - you can get cyclones as complete heads (valve+tube, igniter and burner) or as add-ons for the hand torches (that use hoses), but not for the 87-series. The cyclone has let me make 15mm joints less than 1" from wallpaper without burning it. It's phenomenally efficient heating anything the flame can wrap around.

The Rothenburger has a similar idea - they call it 'swirl flame' instead - but it's not as good IMHO.

E.

 

[Doug B]

That's the one I have (that turns into a flamethrower).

Yep had that a few times usually means the nozzle needs cleaning out or replacing.

Also the picture is a bit misleading although the text makes it clear - that's for just the valve and tube - no cylinder nor actual burner.

I did state that in what I wrote

Although I usually use a Rothenburger now with MAPP gas, you really can't beat the cyclone burner for the Sievert ones. I don't think they sell the burner I have any more - you can get cyclones as complete heads (valve+tube, igniter and burner) or as add-ons for the hand torches (that use hoses), but not for the 87-series. The cyclone has let me make 15mm joints less than 1" from wallpaper without burning it. It's phenomenally efficient heating anything the flame can wrap around.

The Rothenburger has a similar idea - they call it 'swirl flame' instead - but it's not as good IMHO.

E.

The tool reps on the breakfast mornings regularly tried to flog these when they first came out, whilst I admit the push button ignition is handy I've never had a problem with the type of propane torch I linked to even when soldering close to decoration.

 

[woodpig]

This is interesting.

http://youtu.be/OV0KOxQP8gk

As he says, MAPP gas is three times the price but as his test shows doesn't burn that much hotter than Propane.

They stopped making MAPP gas years ago, no idea how good the substitutes are.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas

 

[Doug B]

This is interesting.

http://youtu.be/OV0KOxQP8gk

As he says, MAPP gas is three times the price but as his test shows doesn't burn that much hotter than Propane.

Doesn't surprise me, from time to time I work for a couple of gas fitter mates they both have the MAPP type gas with the newer self igniting torches & while more convenient they've never impressed me that much much that I thought I'd have to buy one.