Best way to machine mortice & tenons or dowels

[Charlie Woody]

I have just completed a batch of mortice & tenons as follows:

1.rout mortices using router fence against workpiece i.e. plunge, plunge, plunge then clean up by moving cutter end to end of the mortise slot.
2. Cut tenons on table saw with home made tenon jig
3. Cut tenon shoulders on bandsaw
4. Round over tenons with rasp

I found this to be quite a slow process and at some point in the new year (funds permitting) I would like to get a machine to speed up this process. As my workshop is small and funds are not huge, a dedicated morticer and tennoner would take up too much space. I want something for furniture making cabinets, tables and chairs etc.

Therefore I think my options in ascending price range are:

1. Trend Mortice & Tenon Jig

Pros: Price. Seems to have a reasonable range of joint sizes. Length of joint only limited by router cutter.
Cons: Not sure it is that much quicker than what I am currently doing. Seems to be imperial sizes - prefer metric. Not sure it would cope with large workpieces say long table rails?

2. LeighSuper FMT Mortice & Tenon Jig

Pros: Seems to have a reasonable range of joint sizes. Metric option available. Length of joint only limited by router cutter.
Cons: Price. Not sure it is that much quicker than what I am currently doing. Not sure it would cope with large workpieces say long table rails?

3. Festool Domino DF500

Pros: Seems quicker to use that products 1 & 2 above. Could cope with larger workpieces.
Cons: Price, Price! Don't think it will do joints as small as products 1 & 2. Length of joint limited by cutter size.

As you can see I can't make a strong argument for any of these products. This is maybe as I have n't found any online head to head comparisons of the products and because I have not tried any of them.

So could you suggest additional pros and cons for each of these products to help me reach a decision?

Alternatively are there other products I should consider such as Joint Genie, Dowelmax or others?

 

[flh801978]

I have the trend M+T jig a stand alone axminster mortising machine and still thought that the process was too slow unless making huge quantitys of the same joint and the mortising was slow ( is it always)

Bought a domino machine last week and made a table with 24 joints in a silly (quick)amount of time all perfect I can't imagine going back to the other way now

It will make 4mm x10mm joints how small do you want?

Ian

 

[mseries]

you might be able to produce mortices faster by routing slots of increasing depths. Instead of plunge plunge plunge then clean up. It'll be plunge clean, plunge clean plunge clean. I use a simple slot template and guide bush so it's very difficult to wander off track and hence relatively fast. Tenons are the slow thing for me though, loose tenons would make it faster of course but I don't want to do that. I am going to make myself a simple tenon jig to use a template, much like the Trend one or like Tom O'Donnells.

 

[Charlie Woody]

you might be able to produce mortices faster by routing slots of increasing depths. Instead of plunge plunge plunge then clean up. It'll be plunge clean, plunge clean plunge clean. I use a simple slot template and guide bush so it's very difficult to wander off track and hence relatively fast. ....

I had thought of doing that but as I am using a 6.35mm cutter and mortice depth of 30mm Wealden strongly recommend the plunge plunge method to avoid undue strain on the cutter. The tenon workpiece was only 18mm thick hence the 6mm mortice. If it was for a wider mortice then what you suggest should be ok.

 

[Charlie Woody]

I have the trend M+T jig a stand alone axminster mortising machine and still thought that the process was too slow unless making huge quantitys of the same joint and the mortising was slow ( is it always)

Bought a domino machine last week and made a table with 24 joints in a silly (quick)amount of time all perfect I can't imagine going back to the other way now

It will make 4mm x10mm joints how small do you want?

Ian

That sounds ok, however the job I was working on required mortices 6mm wide and 30mm deep. I did n't think the Domino would do anything longer than 25mm? Then again would 5mm reduction in tenon length adversely effect the strength of the joint?

Have you tried it on small and compound angles for something like a chair yet?

 

[mseries]

you might be able to produce mortices faster by routing slots of increasing depths. Instead of plunge plunge plunge then clean up. It'll be plunge clean, plunge clean plunge clean. I use a simple slot template and guide bush so it's very difficult to wander off track and hence relatively fast. ....

I had thought of doing that but as I am using a 6.35mm cutter and mortice depth of 30mm Wealden strongly recommend the plunge plunge method to avoid undue strain on the cutter. The tenon workpiece was only 18mm thick hence the 6mm mortice. If it was for a wider mortice then what you suggest should be ok.

Good point. I'd have taken many shallow passes and move slowly, and there's the nub, it's slow. At least using a template, the router is kept very stable which makes it easier to control in the slot direction. My quarter inch cutters are just regular straight ones and don't plunge all that well, I think they have trouble ejecting the waste material.

 

[beech1948]

It occurs to me that you could use a Woodrat to make both tenon and mortice and in doing do remove the rounding with rasp time. The Woodrat would provide common jig holding and a common method of cutting.....I often use mine to cut say 1 inch of a 2 inch mortice or tenon.

Its accurate, precise enough, quite fast.

My compromises were that the fastest way to tenon is to have a tenoner and a big old morticer and run them in batches of say 10+ but its an expensive set of kit for the size of runs involved with furniture not to account for the set-up times.

Al

 

[Charlie Woody]

It occurs to me that you could use a Woodrat to make both tenon and mortice and in doing do remove the rounding with rasp time. The Woodrat would provide common jig holding and a common method of cutting.....I often use mine to cut say 1 inch of a 2 inch mortice or tenon.

Its accurate, precise enough, quite fast.

My compromises were that the fastest way to tenon is to have a tenoner and a big old morticer and run them in batches of say 10+ but its an expensive set of kit for the size of runs involved with furniture not to account for the set-up times.

Al

I did have a woodrat but could never master it so I sold it on!

As mentioned in my original post I don't have the space, or funds, for a morticer and tenoner.

 

[heimlaga]

Do you have a spindle moulder in your shop?

I use my spindle moulder for cutting tennons. I can cut up to 70mm deep tennons using two s-cutters with spacers between. The workpiece is held in a tennoning sled bolted to the table. Both sides and both schoulders are cut at once. There are extra long S-cutters that can cut tennons up to 120mm deep but they require a support bearing to support the spindle above the cutters. My spindle moulder cannot be fitted with that kind of equipment (yet?).
Until lately I have made all longer tennons by hand but next time i will try to use a 300mm cirkular saw blade held between special flanges on the arbour on the spindle moulder.

In the old days there were vertical morticers sold as extra eqipment for many planers and planer/thicknessers. The cutter was held in a chuck on the back end of the cutterhead shaft behind the pulley. Maybe you can find something like that?

 

[Charlie Woody]

Do you have a spindle moulder in your shop?

I use my spindle moulder for cutting tennons. I can cut up to 70mm deep tennons using two s-cutters with spacers between. The workpiece is held in a tennoning sled bolted to the table. Both sides and both schoulders are cut at once. There are extra long S-cutters that can cut tennons up to 120mm deep but they require a support bearing to support the spindle above the cutters. My spindle moulder cannot be fitted with that kind of equipment (yet?).
Until lately I have made all longer tennons by hand but next time i will try to use a 300mm cirkular saw blade held between special flanges on the arbour on the spindle moulder.

In the old days there were vertical morticers sold as extra eqipment for many planers and planer/thicknessers. The cutter was held in a chuck on the back end of the cutterhead shaft behind the pulley. Maybe you can find something like that?

Unfortunately no space in my shop for a spindle moulder either!

 

[Steve Maskery]

Well I'm only posting this because it is a direct response to a direct question.
If you can't have a hollow-chisel mortiser then routing with a dedicated mortising cutter is a good solution. I have a very good jig for this, but there are other, also very good, jig designs out there. Mine has registration and limit sops and makes it easy to do identical and mirror-image mortices.
I also have tenon jigs for both the tablesaw (limited by the height of your saw blade and your ceiling) and the bandsaw, (width limited by the height under your blade). I maintain that they are the best in the world. Very quick to set up, fixed-width tenons independent of thickness (references of one face not two), easy to set the position of the tenon within the thickness of the workpiece and FULLY GUARDED.
It's a quick system for any home woody who does not have the luxury of a dedicated tenoner.

S

 

[user 3995]

Hi Steve, where can I find details of your tenoning jig? Is it listed on UKW somewhere?

By the way, nice to see you contributing to Good Woodworking magazine again. It's a great piece in this months issue. Will we be seeing more of your articles in the coming months?

 

[Steve Maskery]

HI Designer Maker
Well that is interesting! I haven't written for GW for many years, so they are reprinting old articles to which they do not own the copyright. They did this a year or so ago. I think I shall have to have words. I never got paid for that one. I own the copyright and have not given permission for it to be used in this way.
Please tell me what the piece is and how many pages it occupies. Many thanks.

As to my jig, the Ultimate Tablesaw Tenon Jig is on Workshop Essentials 3 and the Ultimate Bandsaw Tenon Jig is on Workshop Essentials 6. You can see them in action on www.ultimatetenonjig.com or click on my signature links.

 

[user 3995]

Hi Steve,

Your article is promoted on the front cover of issue 262 (current) along with a small pic of your good self. The article, titled 'Two-piece classic' shows how to make an attractive cherry dresser with stained glass/black knobs and is spread over 5 pages. I am very surprised to hear they have not paid you for it! I paid good money for my copy of the mag but if they are not paying their authors then I might have to reconsider future purchases.

Thank you for the tenon jig information. I will check out the web site.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Thank you DM
My goodness, I made that 13 years ago. Very many thanks for the info. I shall follow it up. They re-published a similar article a few years ago and never paid me for that either. And I know that I am not the only contributor to be treated in this way.
One of the problems is that the entire production team, apart from Andy, with whom I've never had a quarrel, is different to the people with whom I had a business agreement back then. These people are total strangers to me and as far as I can tell, they have no respect for intellectual property. Don't get me wrong, if they want to publish my material and pay me for it, that's fine and dandy, but this is the second time they have behaved like this (well, the second time to my knowledge, I suppose there may be others of which I am not aware).
Thank you very much for the info.
Steve

 

[monkeybiter]

Ahh I see, I hadn't spotted this thread. It's published as the first of two parts, the second due next month. HTH

 

[Steve Maskery]

Right. Curiouser and curiouser. Thank you. New post being written as we surf!
S

 

[user 3995]

Hi Steve, It is not my intention to take this thread off course but it would be good to know how you get on. Best of luck.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Thank you. Much appreciated.
S